Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 4, 2024, 8:58 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Contra Metaphysical Idealism
#30
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism
(April 8, 2014 at 8:59 pm)Chas Wrote: In that case there is no operational difference between a physical view and you so-called idealistic view. The difference, however, is that yours adds a layer of explanation that is unnecessary and explains nothing.
You have that exactly backward. We already know ideas are real-- we don't even need evidence for that, since it's how we exist. Idealism allows for all of science to still work, while conveniently eliminating the hard problem of consciousness. Physical monism requires drawing many inferences from lifetime experiences, and arriving at a belief about an objective reality that underlies them. That's a lot more work to arrive at a philosophical position that isn't really needed in order to do science.

Let's say you found yourself in the Matrix. Let's even say you KNEW you were in the Matrix. What would you do? You'd observe, make theories, test them, talk about them with other Matrixians, and form a body of rules which described that which is consistent in the Matrix. In short, science is not dependent on the idea of the objective reality of objects or the universe in which they are placed. The converse is true-- that we like the physical model because it frames our experiences in a way that makes it easier (or even possible) to do science.

The problem is that not all things ARE made more presentable by applying the idea of physical monism to them-- things like cosmogony and qualia, for example. And that's where the assymetry favors idealism: all physical observations are well-represented as ideas. But not all experiences or ideas are well-represented as objects of a science which insists on physical monism.

Quote:The evidence that the physical reality is there is that we can independently affect it and get the same results. That indicates that there is reality.

Proof? No, evidence.
Evidence is just another word for "experiences that support my ideas." There's no such thing as non-mental evidence.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by MindForgedManacle - April 1, 2014 at 8:45 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 2, 2014 at 1:49 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Angrboda - April 2, 2014 at 10:51 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 2, 2014 at 7:24 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Neo-Scholastic - April 2, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 2, 2014 at 1:52 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 2, 2014 at 6:14 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by MindForgedManacle - April 4, 2014 at 6:55 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 4, 2014 at 9:44 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 6, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 6, 2014 at 10:34 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 6, 2014 at 6:12 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 6, 2014 at 7:02 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 6, 2014 at 8:04 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 7, 2014 at 8:06 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 7, 2014 at 11:25 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 7, 2014 at 1:07 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 7, 2014 at 4:57 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 7, 2014 at 6:47 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 8, 2014 at 9:25 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 8, 2014 at 3:40 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 8, 2014 at 6:51 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 8, 2014 at 8:39 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 8, 2014 at 8:59 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 8, 2014 at 10:31 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 8, 2014 at 11:19 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 9, 2014 at 5:54 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 9, 2014 at 11:30 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Neo-Scholastic - April 5, 2014 at 11:08 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 6, 2014 at 2:13 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Angrboda - April 7, 2014 at 10:02 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 7, 2014 at 11:24 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by MindForgedManacle - April 7, 2014 at 10:04 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by tor - April 9, 2014 at 5:55 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 9, 2014 at 11:57 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 9, 2014 at 12:11 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 9, 2014 at 12:23 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Chas - April 9, 2014 at 12:33 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 9, 2014 at 6:43 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 9, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by tor - April 9, 2014 at 5:43 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by tor - April 9, 2014 at 6:45 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 9, 2014 at 7:54 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by tor - April 9, 2014 at 9:04 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 9, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by tor - April 9, 2014 at 10:04 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 10, 2014 at 6:40 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by tor - April 10, 2014 at 6:51 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 10, 2014 at 10:38 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by tor - April 10, 2014 at 11:13 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 14, 2014 at 8:16 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 14, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 14, 2014 at 2:14 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 14, 2014 at 6:44 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by JuliaL - April 14, 2014 at 10:21 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 15, 2014 at 12:40 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Angrboda - April 15, 2014 at 7:26 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 15, 2014 at 11:16 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Angrboda - April 16, 2014 at 11:44 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 17, 2014 at 3:01 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Angrboda - April 17, 2014 at 11:30 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 17, 2014 at 5:26 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 18, 2014 at 7:03 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 20, 2014 at 12:50 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 20, 2014 at 7:46 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by bennyboy - April 20, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 21, 2014 at 8:26 am
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 17, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 16, 2014 at 3:53 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Neo-Scholastic - April 16, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by Angrboda - April 16, 2014 at 12:36 pm
RE: Contra Metaphysical Idealism - by archangle - April 17, 2014 at 9:03 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Short essay on dualism, idealism, & materialism as concerns Q: What is a table? Mudhammam 28 5645 February 27, 2017 at 3:02 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Physical idealism bennyboy 92 14051 May 20, 2016 at 4:53 am
Last Post: Ignorant
  Idealism explained in 90 seconds Captain Scarlet 8 2906 October 22, 2015 at 4:06 pm
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  Idealism is more Rational than Materialism Rational AKD 158 50092 February 12, 2015 at 4:51 am
Last Post: robvalue
  The Lesser of Three Evils - Intuition, Induction, and Transcendental Idealism filambee 8 3270 November 21, 2013 at 8:24 am
Last Post: I and I
  Berkeley's Idealism Neo-Scholastic 61 27389 March 23, 2012 at 7:15 pm
Last Post: Neo-Scholastic
  Response to Arcanus on Metaphysical Naturalism Tiberius 11 4805 March 31, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Last Post: RedFish



Users browsing this thread: 10 Guest(s)