“Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!

[bennyboy]

How would you distinguish between truly random and merely very complex?

This is becoming a question about complex determinism vs. true randomness, which is appropriate because it draws in arguments about free will, about whether the universe is "ordered" or not, etc. It's always surprising when we accidentally stay on topic.

Is there any such thing as actual randomness, by which I mean something that cannot possibly, even hypothetically, be traced backward in a linear way or predicted? Maybe with QM, but I'm not sure how you could prove there's no hidden variable or unseen mechanism that causes a "probabilistic" function to collapse at a particular point when you attempt to take a measurement.

---

The discussion was on whether the "sieve" of natural selection is random.
The rolling of the dice represents natural selection acting on individuals. The sum of the outcomes represents changes in allele frequency.

I felt I addressed that issue with the post just before yours. You'll have to explain what randomness means to you, and why you think real-life selection shouldn't be considered random. It seems to me that the consistency of selection depends on the stability of the environment-- something which itself I'd say is intrinsically random.