RE: Bible prophecies
July 10, 2014 at 4:52 pm
(This post was last modified: July 10, 2014 at 4:55 pm by Vicki Q.)
(July 9, 2014 at 4:53 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I was already clear on what it was. Now I'll just turn this back and ask you to finish reading that link for an explanation of why it's a longstanding, but insufficient criterion. The most embarrassing thing about the criterion of embarrassment, is the criterion itself. Amusingly, the link you just asked me to follow goes on to explain - that when something sets up an opportunity to establish theology..........it might not be a very useful criterion (not that this is the only reason, of course)......................
Much as I admire your disagreement with the academic world on the criterion of embarrassment, you might want to rethink. I had read the whole passage, am fully aware of the limitations of that and every other of the normally used criteria, and indeed JPM has a section devoted to the uses and limitations. But it still remains a long-standing tool of academic research for very good reasons. The professionals use it, because carefully used it is an effective argument. JPM is doing with it precisely what the academic world does with it -of all shades of belief and none.
(JPM is a master of careful usage of criteria. Read his work on declaring the loaves and fishes probably unhistorical for an example.)
Quote:Similarly, there's so much core theology wrapped up in that statement that it hardly matters whether or not it's true. We see this in other, less mundane, and arguably less believable parts of the narrative as well. Loaves and fishes, in actuality - are irrelevant, whereas theologically, it's a gold mine. I just don't see the significance that you see here even if we ignore the hurdle of whether or not any such character ever made any such "prediction", in reality. Being such a profound statement, with regards to theology, we run afoul of the above in any case.
What was riding on it?
If you declare judgement on Israel, state that destruction of the Temple within a generation is an essential part of that judgement, and the Temple survives, your whole program is shot. Best to not make those sorts of predictions. Unless you're sure.
(July 9, 2014 at 5:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -and then, what better way to claim those priests authority for your own than to "purify" their temples, and predict their subsequent destruction.
Actually, this is spot on. That's exactly what Jesus was doing. Although I might want to add that it didn't take any prophetic gift to work out that by attacking the Pax Romana, the national authorities and the religious beliefs of a large section of the population, you were going to have Health and Safety issues. It was, in short, a really stupid thing to do.
But like the other stupid idea of Jesus under discussion, sometimes these things have to be done.