RE: Bible Lesson: The Death of Jesus an Evolving Myth
July 24, 2014 at 5:21 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2014 at 5:54 pm by Jenny A.)
(July 24, 2014 at 8:03 am)alpha male Wrote: Yes, it seems reasonable to me that god incarnate would cry that out in anguish, considering the extraordinary situation that he who did not know sin was made sin (2 Cor 5:21). I'm amazed when I consider that, and I can't completely comprehend it.
That any feeling being, would cry out when cruxified seems reasonable. "Arrrrg!" seems most appropriate. But "why hast thou forsaken me," does not sound reasonable on the part of a man/god who knows and I mean really knows he's heaven bound. Interestingly, a literal translation is closer to "why have you left be behind?" than it is to "why hast thou forsaken me?" That's a little odd, don't you think?
Paul's arch enemies the Ebonites believed not only that you had to keep all of the OT laws to follow Jesus, but also that Jesus was not born divine. They believed he lived an exemplary life and was adopted by god at baptism and died very human indeed. They used a version of Mathew which omitted the first two chapters describing Jesus' virgin birth. "My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me," reads rather better in this light.
The Marcionites on the other hand rejected the OT and the OT god outright. They believed there was the god of the OT and the god of Paul's preachings. The god of the OT created this world in all it's evilness. The god of Jesus came into this world to save the world from the vengeful god of the Jews. Marcion taught that Jesus was not really part of the material world. He only appeared to be human, "coming in the likeness of sinful flesh." Romans 8:3 John's Jesus who merely says "it is done" fits this conception of Jesus rather better.
The Gnostics believed that this world was made by an ignorant arrogant bumbling god. People came here from a better place and are trapped here. The NT god is a non-material god unconnected with this world who did not create it. Jesus came to give the saving knowledge of how to escape this world. But they also held the knowledge tight to their chests. It was secret knowledge, thus "gnostic" ---- with knowledge, in the know. How to escape the material world is the message of Jesus. Most of the Gnostics believed Jesus was human and god entered into him---Jesus was not god, but inhabited by god from baptism. The spirit of god left at Jesus' at death though god raised him from the dead afterwards. Thus, "my god, my god why have you left me behind."
Paul's view of Jesus, doesn't quite fit any of the gospels. If he was born the son of god and divine, why would he cry out "why hast thou forsaken me" let alone "why hast thou left me behind." But if he was god made flesh with all of the sensations of flesh, how could he not cry out or merely say, "it is finished?"
This isn't meant to be a gotcha, the Bible isn't inerrant. It's full of contradictions and no thinking person looking at it in an unprejudiced way could find it inerrant. What I'm interested in showing is how the gospels preserve some of the views of early Christians who lost the theological battle to Paul. Early Christians did not share the same vision of Jesus as modern Christians.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.



