Bible Lesson: The Death of Jesus an Evolving Myth

[Jenny A]

That any feeling being, would cry out when cruxified seems reasonable. "Arrrrg!" seems most appropriate. But "why hast thou forsaken me," does not sound reasonable on the part of a man/god who knows and I mean really knows he's heaven bound.

Why not? You act as if there should be no suffering if one is convinced that the suffering will end.

No, as I said suffering would certainly be expected--very physical suffering--the kind that makes you scream or groan out loud. That kind of reaction would be natural in anyone made of flesh and blood.

That's why the depictions of the silent Jesus or the one who merely says, "it is finished" are so odd unless Jesus was really thought to be all god or a mere phantasm of flesh.

That Jesus suffered from the lack of fellowship with the Father while on the cross doesn't indicate that he thought there would never be fellowship again. Even with that knowledge, it still hurt at the time.

Why would he lack the fellowship of god while on the cross? "Take this cup away," is one thing. "Why have you forsaken me," from one who is supposed to know rescue in the form of eternal life is coming is another.

Interestingly, a literal translation is closer to "why have you left be behind?" than it is to "why hast thou forsaken me?" That's a little odd, don't you think?

Young's Literal translates it 'My God, my God, why didst Thou forsake me?'
Also note that Jesus is quoting Psalm 22:1. That Psalm discusses his anguish, yet in verse 21 says that God answers him. Seems doubtful he would quote that psalm if he actually despaired of ever getting an answer.

Erhman translates it as "why have you left me behind?" And that does make sense from the Gnostic point of view.

But certainly Psalm 22:1 is relevant. It gives the writers of Mathew and Luke a reason for putting those particular words into Jesus' mouth. However, it is far from clear that Psalm 22:1 has anything to do with the messiah. That reading of Psalm 22 has a very Christian gloss. I read Psalm 22 as the plea of a suffering man (or perhaps a suffering nation) proclaiming woe and then asking god to help in exchange for proclaiming the goodness of god:

Lord, don’t be so far away.
You give me strength. Come quickly to help me.
Save me from the sword.
Save the only life I have. Save me from the power of those dogs.
Save me from the mouths of those lions.
Save me from the horns of those wild oxen.

I will announce your name to my brothers and sisters.
I will praise you among those who worship you.
You who have respect for the Lord, praise him!
All you people of Jacob, honor him!

Psalm 22:19-23[/quote]

Paul's view of Jesus, doesn't quite fit any of the gospels.

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If he was born the son of god and divine, why would he cry out "why hast thou forsaken me" let alone "why hast thou left me behind." But if he was god made flesh with all of the sensations of flesh, how could he not cry out or merely say, "it is finished?"

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Paul was endorsed by the apostles, as recorded by one of the gospel authors, so I have to disagree that his view of Jesus doesn't fit with the gospels.

Marcion endorsed Paul. He based his cannon almost entirely on Paul's letters. But his view of what Paul said doesn't comport with the orthodox Christian view as it emerged in the third century. So I don't see that an endorsement of Paul would make the gospel read the way Paul is now interpreted.

I don't see any of the gospel as endorsing a particularly Pauline point of view. Nor do they all have the same point of view.