RE: "Gospel Quest" (or The Jesus Timeline)
August 3, 2014 at 12:18 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2014 at 12:18 pm by DeistPaladin.)
Part II: The Jesus Timeline
So now that we've introduced our "reliable eye-witnesses" and found them to be neither reliable nor eye-witnesses, let's closely examine their testimonies and see if we can create a coherent timeline.
The historical milestones that we can use to try to place the life of Jesus in the timestream of the past include the lives and administrations of the following figures:
There's one other historical figure to add to the list: John the Baptist (or JtB, as we'll call him for short and to distinguish him from the John on the witness stand). His dates are a little more tricky to nail down exactly but we can closely approximate them with a little research.
First, Luke tells us that he started his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar.
This places the start of JtB's ministry in 28-29 CE. Mind you, this is the start of what would be a very noteworthy and successful ministry, not the end of it. It's important to establish when the end of his ministry is because that's when the three Synoptic Gospels tell us that Jesus began his ministry.
John the Baptist had a most successful ministry. He has followers to this day who insist that he is the messiah. Unlike Jesus, he has contemporary mentions by historians like Josephus. Such a following is typically not put together overnight. Luckily, we don't have to just speculate he needed a few years but we also have an important historical event to use as a milestone.
Luke tells us that JtB got into trouble with Herod Antipas, the tetrarch of Galilee, for criticizing his marriage to his brother's wife, Herodius, and was put into prison.
Herodius was married to Philip, who died in 32-33 CE. Philip was the tetrarch of Ituraea, a substantial track of territory. Could Antipas' marriage been a political maneuver to secure this territory? Already by that point, Rome had managed to secure Archelaus' territory in 6 CE. Surely that must have been a concern for Antipas. Map below shows the division of lands among the Herodian children.
There was a complication: Antipas was already married to the daughter of king Aratas of the neighboring state, Nabatea. The said daughter learned of Antipas' plans to divorce her and she fled to the safety of her father's kingdom. With his daughter safe in his custody, Aratas made war with Antipas. Aratas defeated Antipas' forces in 36 CE, forcing Antipas to plead with Rome for assistance. Governor Vitellius of Syria, under orders from Tiberius, came to Antipas' aid but the death of Tiberius (March 37 CE) cause the governor to conclude he no longer had the authority to pursue war with Aratas.
Christian apologists and even secular "historists" (those secular historians who believe Jesus was a mortal religious leader) want to push the dates of the end of JtB's ministry to 29 CE or before, allowing Jesus to start his ministry around 30 CE. However, such an early date makes no sense, not just because JtB would have had no time to establish a successful ministry but it also pushes the dates of the divorce of Antipas to before that time as well. The battle with Aratas over that divorce happened in 36 CE. Did it take seven years for Aratas to get around to following through with his declaration of war? And if it did take that long, Antipas would have had forewarning of the coming invasion and pleaded with Rome for assistance much sooner. Antipas was a client state of Rome, under its protection. Had Aratas declared war in 30 CE but not attacked until 36 CE, instead of battling with Antipas' forces alone, he'd have faced a Roman legion.
A timeline that better fits the facts is JtB was jailed around 34 CE. This gives JtB enough time to establish his ministry and also fits with Luke's timeline that Jesus was "about 30" when JC started his ministry, but we'll get into that when we closely examine that timeline specifically. It also fits the political events nicely.
To underscore this point, let's compare the two possible timelines:
Christian Apologist Timeline
More likely timeline:
This timeline also better conforms to Luke's timeline that Jesus was "about 30" when he started his ministry.
So with all the characters in place, let's map out the three separate timelines.
To be continued...
So now that we've introduced our "reliable eye-witnesses" and found them to be neither reliable nor eye-witnesses, let's closely examine their testimonies and see if we can create a coherent timeline.
The historical milestones that we can use to try to place the life of Jesus in the timestream of the past include the lives and administrations of the following figures:
- Caesar Augustus: Died 14 CE
- Caesar Tiberius: Ruled Rome from 14 CE to 27 CE.
- Pontius Pilate: Governor of Judea from 26 to 36 CE.
- Quirinius: Governor of Syria from 6 CE to 12 CE.
- King Herod the Great: Died in 4 BCE, late March or early April.
There's one other historical figure to add to the list: John the Baptist (or JtB, as we'll call him for short and to distinguish him from the John on the witness stand). His dates are a little more tricky to nail down exactly but we can closely approximate them with a little research.
First, Luke tells us that he started his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar.
The Gospel of Luke Wrote:3:1-2 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
This places the start of JtB's ministry in 28-29 CE. Mind you, this is the start of what would be a very noteworthy and successful ministry, not the end of it. It's important to establish when the end of his ministry is because that's when the three Synoptic Gospels tell us that Jesus began his ministry.
John the Baptist had a most successful ministry. He has followers to this day who insist that he is the messiah. Unlike Jesus, he has contemporary mentions by historians like Josephus. Such a following is typically not put together overnight. Luckily, we don't have to just speculate he needed a few years but we also have an important historical event to use as a milestone.
Luke tells us that JtB got into trouble with Herod Antipas, the tetrarch of Galilee, for criticizing his marriage to his brother's wife, Herodius, and was put into prison.
The Gospel of Luke Wrote:3:19 But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for Herodias his brother Philip's wife, and for all the evils which Herod had done,
Herodius was married to Philip, who died in 32-33 CE. Philip was the tetrarch of Ituraea, a substantial track of territory. Could Antipas' marriage been a political maneuver to secure this territory? Already by that point, Rome had managed to secure Archelaus' territory in 6 CE. Surely that must have been a concern for Antipas. Map below shows the division of lands among the Herodian children.
There was a complication: Antipas was already married to the daughter of king Aratas of the neighboring state, Nabatea. The said daughter learned of Antipas' plans to divorce her and she fled to the safety of her father's kingdom. With his daughter safe in his custody, Aratas made war with Antipas. Aratas defeated Antipas' forces in 36 CE, forcing Antipas to plead with Rome for assistance. Governor Vitellius of Syria, under orders from Tiberius, came to Antipas' aid but the death of Tiberius (March 37 CE) cause the governor to conclude he no longer had the authority to pursue war with Aratas.
Christian apologists and even secular "historists" (those secular historians who believe Jesus was a mortal religious leader) want to push the dates of the end of JtB's ministry to 29 CE or before, allowing Jesus to start his ministry around 30 CE. However, such an early date makes no sense, not just because JtB would have had no time to establish a successful ministry but it also pushes the dates of the divorce of Antipas to before that time as well. The battle with Aratas over that divorce happened in 36 CE. Did it take seven years for Aratas to get around to following through with his declaration of war? And if it did take that long, Antipas would have had forewarning of the coming invasion and pleaded with Rome for assistance much sooner. Antipas was a client state of Rome, under its protection. Had Aratas declared war in 30 CE but not attacked until 36 CE, instead of battling with Antipas' forces alone, he'd have faced a Roman legion.
A timeline that better fits the facts is JtB was jailed around 34 CE. This gives JtB enough time to establish his ministry and also fits with Luke's timeline that Jesus was "about 30" when JC started his ministry, but we'll get into that when we closely examine that timeline specifically. It also fits the political events nicely.
To underscore this point, let's compare the two possible timelines:
Christian Apologist Timeline
- 28 CE: JtB starts ministry. Run music to "Yakety Axe" as he manically establishes his successful ministry in just one year.
- 29 CE: Antipas says "hey baby, let's ditch our spouses and get married", Herod Philip says, "meh, go ahead", JtB says "stop this wikedness at once I say", Antipas says, "OK, to jail with you then"
- 30 CE: Aratas says, "How dare you ditch my daughter? I declare war!"
- 31 CE: ...
- 32 CE: ...
- 33 CE: ...
- 34 CE: ...
- 35 CE: ...
- 36 CE: Battle ensues. Antipas gets his ass kicked. Antipas says, "Rome, help me!". Tiberius says, "Bring me Aratas' head."
More likely timeline:
- 28 CE: JtB starts his ministry.
- 33 CE: Philip croaks. Antipas says, "Crap, now Rome will take his lands. Time to marry his wife."
- 34 CE: JtB gets all bent out of shape over the divorce and remarriage. Aratas is none too pleased either. JtB shoots off his mouth and gets thrown in jail.
- 35 CE: Aratas declares war.
- 36 CE: Antipas gets his ass kicked and pleads with Rome for assistance.
This timeline also better conforms to Luke's timeline that Jesus was "about 30" when he started his ministry.
So with all the characters in place, let's map out the three separate timelines.
To be continued...
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist