RE: On non-belief and the existence of God
August 14, 2014 at 12:10 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2014 at 12:14 pm by Michael.)
Well, the thing that strikes me there, F2R, is that you're working from the basis of a hidden God, but that's quite contrary to the Christian faith in the incarnation of God in the person of Jesus.
But I do appreciate that God seems hidden to many people on an individual level. I think that is probably an even greater of an issue in a Western country that stresses the 'personal relationship to Jesus' as central to the Christian faith. To be honest I'm not entirely sure what that means to people. Personally I have a strong sense of the numinous, but I don't mind admitting it's terribly vague; I certainly don't get any clear specific messages from Jesus. So in that sense I don't think I do have a 'personal relationship with Jesus' in the American Evangelical sense of things. I pray to Jesus, but I don't hear anything specific back. I can't say I've ever been able to say "God told me to do such and such, or such and such was going to happen". I don't speak in tongues either (while I'm getting my almost total lack of evangelical credentials out on the table). Thankfully I'm not an American Evangelical so I'm not too worried. So while I experience great peace in prayer, and it gives me time, I feel, for the conscience to speak (in much the same way as it would for an atheist who spends time in quiet), if I want revelation of more specific guidance I'll read the bible and reflect on the lives of a people who together are in relationship with God. A key difference between Catholic and Protestant faiths here is we (Catholics) I think are much more focussed on the community ahead of the individual. I think that's largely the other way around in Protestantism (hence their 'personal relationship with Jesus'). So I learn from the community. We reflect on the lives of 'the saints' (today, for example, we remember Maximilian Kolbe, who gave his life for others in a German concentration camp). God, then, reveals himself in the lives of others, in our conscience, and most especially in Jesus. My sense of the numinous, if anything, just prepares me to see outside of a more highly constrained naturalism.
Sorry, that's a bit rambling, but I think the revelation of God is a subtle question. At least it is for me. Others may report clearer personal revelation.
But I do appreciate that God seems hidden to many people on an individual level. I think that is probably an even greater of an issue in a Western country that stresses the 'personal relationship to Jesus' as central to the Christian faith. To be honest I'm not entirely sure what that means to people. Personally I have a strong sense of the numinous, but I don't mind admitting it's terribly vague; I certainly don't get any clear specific messages from Jesus. So in that sense I don't think I do have a 'personal relationship with Jesus' in the American Evangelical sense of things. I pray to Jesus, but I don't hear anything specific back. I can't say I've ever been able to say "God told me to do such and such, or such and such was going to happen". I don't speak in tongues either (while I'm getting my almost total lack of evangelical credentials out on the table). Thankfully I'm not an American Evangelical so I'm not too worried. So while I experience great peace in prayer, and it gives me time, I feel, for the conscience to speak (in much the same way as it would for an atheist who spends time in quiet), if I want revelation of more specific guidance I'll read the bible and reflect on the lives of a people who together are in relationship with God. A key difference between Catholic and Protestant faiths here is we (Catholics) I think are much more focussed on the community ahead of the individual. I think that's largely the other way around in Protestantism (hence their 'personal relationship with Jesus'). So I learn from the community. We reflect on the lives of 'the saints' (today, for example, we remember Maximilian Kolbe, who gave his life for others in a German concentration camp). God, then, reveals himself in the lives of others, in our conscience, and most especially in Jesus. My sense of the numinous, if anything, just prepares me to see outside of a more highly constrained naturalism.
Sorry, that's a bit rambling, but I think the revelation of God is a subtle question. At least it is for me. Others may report clearer personal revelation.
