(August 14, 2014 at 12:10 pm)Michael Wrote: Well, the thing that strikes me there, F2R, is that you're working from the basis of a hidden God, but that's quite contrary to the Christian faith in the incarnation of God in the person of Jesus.
Granted, *something* needed to have happened in the past in order for Christianity to maintain a steady course through the ages. It's what all religions of today needed to have in their foundations. I don't mean this in a negative way, but it's what I call the religion's "gimmick":
Christianity - claims of everyday people reporting on the things Jesus said and did. Thus, a very organic piece of history in the first century C.E. was produced.
Islam - claims that an illiterate man wrote what is considered the most beautiful passages of arabic writing ever written (and hence why it's believed to be divinely inspired).
Hinduism - I've personally been told by a hindu that their holy book is *so* in line with reality, and expresses all that is and how it is, that it was possible to use it as the basis for software coding at a university.
Every other religion today will surely have its own gimmick, but the problem for me as an agnostic atheist is that none stand out more than any other as the accurate truth of this universe. I mean, what do I pick? The "genuine history" claim? The "impossibly beautiful book" claim? The "reality incarnate through text" claim? Etc etc.
But again, God simply showing himself here and now would make my chances at salvation more realistic, unless he doesn't wish for my salvation or he doesn't have the power to aid me on my journey to being saved. Ergo the non-belief problem.
Quote:But I do appreciate that God seems hidden to many people on an individual level. I think that is probably an even greater of an issue in a Western country that stresses the 'personal relationship to Jesus' as central to the Christian faith. To be honest I'm not entirely sure what that means to people. Personally I have a strong sense of the numinous, but I don't mind admitting it's terribly vague; I certainly don't get any clear specific messages from Jesus. So in that sense I don't think I do have a 'personal relationship with Jesus' in the American Evangelical sense of things. I pray to Jesus, but I don't hear anything specific back. I can't say I've ever been able to say "God told me to do such and such, or such and such was going to happen". I don't speak in tongues either (while I'm getting my almost total lack of evangelical credentials out on the table). Thankfully I'm not an American Evangelical so I'm not too worried. So while I experience great peace in prayer, and it gives me time, I feel, for the conscience to speak (in much the same way as it would for an atheist who spends time in quiet), if I want revelation of more specific guidance I'll read the bible and reflect on the lives of a people who together are in relationship with God. A key difference between Catholic and Protestant faiths here is we (Catholics) I think are much more focussed on the community ahead of the individual. I think that's largely the other way around in Protestantism (hence their 'personal relationship with Jesus'). So I learn from the community. We reflect on the lives of 'the saints' (today, for example, we remember Maximilian Kolbe, who gave his life for others in a German concentration camp). God, then, reveals himself in the lives of others, in our conscience, and most especially in Jesus. My sense of the numinous, if anything, just prepares me to see outside of a more highly constrained naturalism.
Sorry, that's a bit rambling, but I think the revelation of God is a subtle question. At least it is for me. Others may report clearer personal revelation.
That's great for you that you can have faith without having ever been given an explicit experience of God's existence. Great for you, and *only* you
Can I be blamed for not knowing which religion to place my faith in? God being omniscient and knowing of the myriads of lines of thought I could potentially take to end up at any religion... I would hope the answer is "no".
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle