(September 14, 2014 at 11:30 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:(September 14, 2014 at 6:21 pm)ShaMan Wrote: A hole is not defined by what it is not, a hole is defined as the absence of that which surrounds it, which is.Yes, the hole is defined by what surrounds it, but the hole itself is not the same as that which surrounds it. The point is that Esquilax asked for something that is intrinsically immaterial. A hole is known with respect to something material but is not itself material. Thus it is possible to know about something that is indeed immaterial through observation of something that is material. If however you insist that holes are just convenient fictions and do not really exist then that makes you an a-hole, now doesn't it?
I'm pretty sure that space itself is a thing (you've heard the phrase the fabric of space-time, right?), meaning that even a hole is something.
A hole in the ground is something: it is a subterranean collection of atmosphere, and that is indeed material.
