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June 18, 2010 at 7:12 pm (This post was last modified: June 18, 2010 at 7:42 pm by tackattack.)
(June 17, 2010 at 5:43 pm)Welsh cake Wrote:
(June 15, 2010 at 3:48 pm)tackattack Wrote: 1- The conditions aren't imposed on the part of the creator, they're due to the reciprocal dynamic of exchanging love. If my time here proves anything it's that love can be accepted or rejected, and reciprocated love still feels like love from the giving side, but not from the receiving side. I still say the unconditional part stands.
If you're going to undertake the pointless task of redefining the already defined concept of emotional love at least make it meaningful. And I still say the 'unconditional' part is fucking absurd and leaves us open to every conceivable form of abuse imaginable.
tackattack Wrote:2- I agree on your point of your perception of the Biblical character of God, that's not love, that's manipulation, personification and misconception.
This is so bloody tedious. Let's make this interesting, I'm issuing you a challenge tack: quote one line just ONE event in the Bible where you disagree completely with your God concept's reckless actions, I dare you to cite one time where you found his character to be utterly immoral, repugnant and reprehensible. If you can successfully pull that (feat) off then just for you I'll quote a single passage from Biblical text where I find your tyrant godfather concept's decision(s)/action(s) to be benign and morally positive.
tackattack Wrote:3- Anything worth having is worth sacrificing for. God does forgive everyone, what about that aren't you getting. He sacrificed for sinners and saints alike. His sacrifice wasn't just his death on the cross that was just the end of it. If you can't see the nobility of self-sacrifice through literally dying to give everyone a chance at eternal happiness, I don't think I can make you see anything different. IMO it seems like you're intentionally wearing blinders though.
I don't want eternal existence with your imaginery deity. Does your depraved god concept respect my heart-felt decision? Fuck no, according to you its fire and brimstone for me, hooray!
1-It is meaningful. I'm missing your point. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your perspective but what kind of skewed perspective sees receiving unconditional love bringing up ideas of fucking absurdity and every conceivable form of abuse imaginable. Please help me see your perspective better.
2-Just one .. that's easy there are lots.
Hosea 13:16
The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open.
Zephaniah 1:2-6
"I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,"
declares the LORD.
3 "I will sweep away both men and animals;
I will sweep away the birds of the air
and the fish of the sea.
The wicked will have only heaps of rubble [a]
when I cut off man from the face of the earth,"
declares the LORD.
Against Judah
4 "I will stretch out my hand against Judah
and against all who live in Jerusalem.
I will cut off from this place every remnant of Baal,
the names of the pagan and the idolatrous priests-
5 those who bow down on the roofs
to worship the starry host,
those who bow down and swear by the LORD
and who also swear by Molech, [b]
6 those who turn back from following the LORD
and neither seek the LORD nor inquire of him.
Numbers 31:7-18
7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. [a]
13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.
15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
for just a few..No need for a challenge .. I've fully admitted that there are lots of atrocities attributed to God in the Bible.
3-I've never once said that you're going to hell, just that you're wearing blinders. If I can respect your decision, why wouldn't my God? You're entitled to your opinions and on this point we've obviously reached an impasse.
(June 15, 2010 at 9:44 pm)ecolox Wrote: The nature of people who reject the holy God is such that they deserve to burn in hell forever and ever. These are the sorts of people who would harm undeserving others without a second thought (if they had the opportunity (e.g. no punishments from authorities)).
You call yourself an atheist, but would you really reject THE embodiment of morality, justice, fair treatment, and so on - when you saw it (i.e. is it a lack of evidence, or is it a matter of hatred)?
And those kinds of judgmental, hateful, and intolerant baseless assumptions are exactly what drive some people away from religion as a whole. God may be our judge in the ever-after, but he's quite certain that we're not to judge, lest we be judged.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari