(September 25, 2014 at 2:29 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:I said that as an answer to the argument that saying god is too complex to have been uncreated, or rather, that it is unexplainable, the same attributes do apply to our universe.(September 25, 2014 at 2:22 pm)Madness20 Wrote: Well, be it god or the universe, you have somekind of unexplainable fundamental complexity
Unexplainable fundamental comlpexity? What does that even mean? Besides, just because something is unexplained currently doesn't mean it's unexplainable, nor does it mean you can toss on some supernatural crap which is in and of itself, unexplainable.
(September 25, 2014 at 2:29 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:Well it might not be, but i'm trully very very sceptical, if not against, the idea that science might prove some day that "nothing" exists and created something, and that something created everything we have. What about you?Quote:and is almost logical necessity that something always existed in order to generate somethingNo, it's really not. Again, you don't get to toss in an eternal cause or creator just because it 'makes sense to you'. That's not how science works.
Unless we prove that the laws of non-contradictions and tautological equality are false, i have reasons to believe this is impossible. Unless we disprove that the universe has a balance and nothing is really "lost or generated it just transforms" and several other scientifical and philosophical theories and laws that are consistent with eternity.
(September 25, 2014 at 2:29 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:It's actually the opposite. I'm trying to define some concievable characteristics to our universe, and call it "god" a posteriori by it's characteristics. Let's see, eternal, creative, generating all complexity, first cause, collection of everything, deterministic/logically absolute, potentially infinite and transcending (to all sets). Hmm, yeah, this fits my definition of a God.Quote:so the argument for complexity of the uncreated cause is not exactly strong.Again, lots of words with a lot of baggage, might want to clarify exactly what you're trying to say here. If by "the complexity of the uncreated cause" you just mean the current state of our reality and how we perceive 'complexity' in nature, then you're out of rope. There's nothing but evidence for natural emergence of complexity, as nature is all we have the ability to measure. Again, you don't get to stick a god on top of everything. We have evidence of nature existing, and that nature has what we call complexity. There is absolutely nothing there to suggest a god or a creator.
If i can prove it? I can't, that's why they are beliefs, not knowledge. I just have "reasonable faith" the universe follows these characteristics.