Evidence for God being "a superior being" ?

[tackattack]

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Hope you have recovered from the strep tackattack.

Let's pick up the pieces of this discussion

I thought this was clear PR. Have you ever heard the phrase "I love my new lawnmower" or "I love that new show on HBO" Does that mean the objects reciprocate our love similarly, not they have no consciousness thus no emotion. Ever heard someone "Love their dog/cat". Are their emotional centers as developed as ours? No so we can be fairly certain that they don't love us the same way we love them, but we can see aspects of that love in their loyalty and affection, etc. Last example, ever loved an infant. Their cognitive processes and emotional development aren't the same at all as an adults. They obviously don't love us back the same, they're more interested in survival. I know of very few parents who wouldn't throw themselves in front of a moving vehicle to save their child or perhaps even someone else's.

1-All these are examples of human emotion, i.e. emotions humans have towards the things and persons that surround them. I leave it to you whether these emotions all can and should be classified under the category of love. Anyway in all these posts on this topic I've stated over and over again that this human emotion does not require a third party to enable the emotion or a second party to acknowledge the emotion..

If an aspect of God is consciousness and the ability to express that consciousness, perhaps his emotional center is far more developed than ours is ATM. I'm not saying God loves.. as an action. I'm saying God is love as a noun.Yes I feel it is possible to love something and it not love you back and vice versa. Yes I believe you can understand logically the concept of something you can't yet attain. Christians use God as an absolute concept for holiness, everything good and pure that we strive towards. Everything humans witness must be labeled from a category of human experience or abstract concept, because that is the nature of observation. We separate God concept from the human concept by observing, then identifying with abstract concepts, the most absolute version of observed attributes separated from human fallibility.

2-So what you are saying boils down to the observation, which I happen to agree on, that god is no active party in the human emotion of love. And you argue that all activities in that category can be denoted by the noun "love". You've failed however to argue that we need yet another noun "god" to be able to better understand the particular phenomenon of human emotion. And you've also failed to clarify how this association defines the newly introduced concept of god. In fact what you have shown here more than anything is how the god concept abuses a concept from reality (love) to force a superfluous meaning of god into existence. It is a clear case of semantic fraudulence to me.

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Yes, I've moved from applesauce to rice and can at least talk now, and ty. Now by all means back to the discussion.

1- I agree you can love without reciprocation, but what value is there in loving a flower? Is there more value in loving a child and it's showing it's love in return? You're treating God as a third party when I'm simply stating that God (from a Christian perspective) the initiator of pure, unconditional love. As a Christian I use that as a guide to better my love to my fellow man. I also am thankful for that love from God and reciprocate that back to him through praise and worship. Lot's of atheists claim that worshiping is because God requires us to love him back, I'm saying it's not a requirement (my whole original point I believe)

2- OK I don't want this to get to a semantic battle. Instead of God's Love, I'll simply use pure, unconditional love. I perhaps got caught up myself in some dogmatic semantics. In attempting to define God, I have found that pure, unconditional love is one attribute of God. Since God is also the originator, any human love would be towards God. Since the originating love perceptually appears more refined than my own abilities to love and fall in the biblical definitions of what love should be, I assume it comes from a higher source, namely God. Since I seek to better myself I attempt as often as allowed to emulate that love.

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1- And I'm trying to explain the purpose. I'm trying to define a goal for love to evolve into, as an absolute. If I called it perfect love or absolute love would it be easier for atheists to swallow? Is it the word God tripping you up?

Not at all, the noun, the word usage is confusing, I see where you're coming from when you state a person's love maybe different from another's because perhaps they are fundamentally different in their personalities and behaviour towards others, but the word "love" already has a meaning and we've established its usage; it is within our cognitive capacities to perceive or express this abstract emotion, so I'd like you to demonstrate to me how they differ so drastically with your god concept, and how we are incapable of also expressing this yet also capable of distinguishing the two aren't the same.

In other words, your dumb argument is dumb and needs work.

3-By MY faith? I would say you're going to die. When you die you'll go wherever you belong, I don't know enough about you to make a further determination. Simply being an atheist doesn't put you in the bowels of hell or whatever your favorite hellfire catch phrase is. If you asking what the tenants of Christianity say will happen to people who know God and refuse him in eternity, then the answer would be an eternity of separation from God.

Then you must appreciate I'm already in a state of separation from God, so what's the difference? If its not being with sky daddy then where I am physically, meta-physically or according to you "spiritually" going to be after biological death if I don't share your core beliefs? I'll rephrase the question if you can't manage: Since your deity concept judges us what is this afterlife place/state he has planned for me and what will I experience there as an atheist?

And for goodness sake don't jump around again and state ''oh, god doesn't send you there, you choose to go there'' because no sane individual chooses an afterlife of eternal suffering for the IPU's sake.

4-Wish I'd own up to what? How could I logically be more moral than the absolute concept I use to improve my own personal morality, doesn't make sense. If you want me to admit I'm more moral than the concept you have of God, I could safely bet that I am. As far as God giving a shit about you, you're not reading the same book I am then. When Jesus came he went to the poor, the outcast, the sinners, the unbelievers, the lepers, the homeless. Jesus didn't come to save the rich, or the white, or the educated, he came to save us all. [/off soapbox]

Just which version of the Bible are we referring to exactly? You speak of Jesus' superior nature, the same Jesus who is judge in Matthew 25:31 who will someday separate the sheep from the goats, needless to say if this were remotely true I'd probably wind up on his left hand only for him to say "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels". I'm really feeling the "God's love" here; based on the Biblical account he doesn't particularly sound like a very compassionate man/demi god to me Tack. Your interpretation of him and his sky daddy sounds an awful lot similar to some kind of Universalist edit, not saying you are one, but it is all rather inaccurate from what scriptures depict happens.

Sorry the responses have been a little delayed or emotional I've had strep and am quite grumpy from not eating for 3 days..

What's up friend? Are you fasting or something?

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1-"your dumb argument is dumb".. :S.. well excuse the fuck out of me.. allow me to use big words so you can continue to not get it. The main differences between the common interpersonal love human's share and the love between God and man are:
a- The initiator of said love is incorporeal
b- The love being received is unconditional
c- The love being received isn't mercurial
d- The love being received is eternal

3- I do appreciate you're living in a state of denial of God, if I assume you have read the Bible and don't believe God exists. I don't know if you're an atheist because you've never believed in God or because you deny God. If you want me to assume the former I will. To answer your question, what he has planned for you is an eternity of his love unless you actively deny evidence that God exists. If you've never been presented with any and it's not against your nature then I would assume than typically that would fall under being ignorant of the law, which actually affords you heaven in Romans 2:14-16. In your case I believe you're wanting me to assume you see evidence for God to exists, but you don't see it as viable or that you intentionally live an amoral lifestyle according to yourself. If either is the case then I'm going to have to assume you wouldn't be welcome in Gods presence.
This is how my faith teaches the afterlife. You die. Since we are after Christ and based on whether you have heard the "good news" of Jesus or not you either are in the Lord's presence or not. It's debatable whether there's a purgatory phase that's a temporary torment (During which time I'm sure any disbelief in a deity would cease). Then there's judgment day where those worthy are born again, and those who aren't are sent to annihilation (whether that's eternal torment or nothingness idk). I don't believe God eternally punishes someone unworthy of that, it far more likely that it's simply oblivion. I think it's possible in the instant of death to be face to face with your creator and instantly believe and repent. I'm not certain if it has to all be done when alive 100% and interactive with the world or not. I hope that clarifies it a little better, from my perspective.

4-I have no idea what universalism believes, but the NIV and KJV Bible are actually very vague on what happens exactly after death. I think the Catholics took purgatory from the Apocrypha. You can rest assured that this is my general understanding of Christian doctrine and it's biblical implications. It's quite obvious you don't feel God's love. Just like with interpersonal relationships though, how can you possibly expect anyone to love you when you're spitting bile out of your mouth at all times. That's my whole point about softening the heart, not convincing yourself to believe in something you don't, but to eschew the hate and intolerance and allow for the opportunity for someone to love you. (I'm not sure if that was in this thread or not.. a lot of catching up to do)