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Gods supposed perfection
#15
RE: Gods supposed perfection
(October 2, 2014 at 6:07 pm)MistressD Wrote: I guess perhaps I address this question to theists...if God is so perfect, and created Adam and eve as perfect in his image, then why did they disobey him? If they were created without sin then how is it they came to sin? I'm not talking about the stupid tree of knowledge, I'm asking how it was they were so susceptible to satan? Which leads me to another question, God created satan himself, from what I understand he was a perfect angel, then how is it he also came to sin? This seems to me God is in fact fallible, or else deliberately set us up to fail, seeing as how sin should not exist unless he made it so. As a burgeoning atheist, this is one of the biggest issues I have with theism. I wish to hear as many points of view as possible on this one, not just Christians please.
The answer may offend you, but....

Isaiah 45:9 (9"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?) is quoted and expounded in Romans 9:16-24

16It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Often we want God to be how we want Him to be, act how we want Him to act, so as to serve our wills. We want to create a God in our image. This is the perspective of humanism interpreting scripture, namely "It should be all about ME, all for MY benefit." Well, who are you oh man that you should.....

If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?



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Messages In This Thread
Gods supposed perfection - by MistressD - October 2, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Lemonvariable72 - October 2, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Alex K - October 2, 2014 at 6:20 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 2, 2014 at 6:56 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Minimalist - October 2, 2014 at 6:23 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Lemonvariable72 - October 2, 2014 at 6:38 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by MistressD - October 2, 2014 at 6:51 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by vorlon13 - October 2, 2014 at 7:15 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by MistressD - October 2, 2014 at 6:56 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Alex K - October 2, 2014 at 7:01 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 2, 2014 at 7:57 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 2, 2014 at 7:07 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by MistressD - October 2, 2014 at 7:27 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Minimalist - October 2, 2014 at 7:53 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 7, 2014 at 10:46 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 11:10 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Mudhammam - October 7, 2014 at 4:23 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Losty - October 9, 2014 at 3:06 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Esquilax - October 9, 2014 at 5:00 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by downbeatplumb - October 11, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by polar bear - October 16, 2014 at 10:42 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Anomalocaris - October 7, 2014 at 10:56 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by bladevalant546 - October 7, 2014 at 10:58 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Anomalocaris - October 7, 2014 at 10:59 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 7, 2014 at 11:40 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 8, 2014 at 1:38 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 8, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 11:56 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Tonus - October 7, 2014 at 3:18 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 7, 2014 at 12:00 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 12:13 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Neo-Scholastic - October 7, 2014 at 12:50 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Thumpalumpacus - October 7, 2014 at 1:19 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 2:24 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 3:24 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by C4RM5 - October 7, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Tonus - October 7, 2014 at 4:01 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 7, 2014 at 4:41 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Thumpalumpacus - October 8, 2014 at 4:13 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Lemonvariable72 - October 8, 2014 at 5:34 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 3:41 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by C4RM5 - October 7, 2014 at 3:43 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Drich - October 7, 2014 at 9:38 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 10:05 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Alex K - October 8, 2014 at 3:28 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Mudhammam - October 8, 2014 at 3:31 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 8, 2014 at 3:37 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 8, 2014 at 3:44 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by FatAndFaithless - October 8, 2014 at 3:46 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 9, 2014 at 1:57 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 9, 2014 at 8:35 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by The Grand Nudger - October 9, 2014 at 2:51 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 9, 2014 at 12:08 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 9, 2014 at 3:37 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 10, 2014 at 1:53 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Esquilax - October 11, 2014 at 4:28 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Losty - October 12, 2014 at 3:01 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Losty - October 25, 2014 at 2:18 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 10, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 10, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 10, 2014 at 3:42 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 10, 2014 at 4:29 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 11, 2014 at 3:58 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 5:30 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Whateverist - October 11, 2014 at 6:11 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 11, 2014 at 10:37 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 11:25 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chas - October 11, 2014 at 12:08 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 11, 2014 at 12:20 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Whateverist - October 11, 2014 at 12:31 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 1:11 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 12:43 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 6:42 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Whateverist - October 11, 2014 at 10:53 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 11, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 11, 2014 at 1:14 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 11, 2014 at 1:31 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Little Rik - October 12, 2014 at 7:39 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 13, 2014 at 4:08 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 13, 2014 at 6:40 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 14, 2014 at 1:23 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Esquilax - October 17, 2014 at 11:37 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 14, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 15, 2014 at 4:51 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 15, 2014 at 5:05 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Tonus - October 16, 2014 at 8:28 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by ThomM - October 14, 2014 at 3:05 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 15, 2014 at 10:02 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by The Grand Nudger - October 15, 2014 at 5:15 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 16, 2014 at 8:11 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 16, 2014 at 11:49 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Tonus - October 17, 2014 at 5:57 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 17, 2014 at 9:10 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 17, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 17, 2014 at 1:13 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 17, 2014 at 1:46 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 17, 2014 at 2:31 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by downbeatplumb - October 19, 2014 at 5:01 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 19, 2014 at 4:18 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 19, 2014 at 5:08 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 19, 2014 at 9:20 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Aoi Magi - October 19, 2014 at 9:27 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 25, 2014 at 7:35 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 25, 2014 at 4:57 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 25, 2014 at 6:00 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 26, 2014 at 12:34 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 26, 2014 at 10:33 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Esquilax - October 26, 2014 at 4:45 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 28, 2014 at 4:05 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by abaris - October 26, 2014 at 5:18 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 28, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by LastPoet - October 28, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 30, 2014 at 3:25 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Nintentacle - November 5, 2014 at 6:21 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - November 5, 2014 at 6:35 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by simplemoss - November 5, 2014 at 6:56 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - November 5, 2014 at 7:04 am

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