Gods supposed perfection

[orangebox21]

I don't know what else to say. I believe it's torture because being on fire is painful, and the idea of eternal suffering for finite crimes being bad should be self evident. What exactly are you expecting me to say?

I realize I'm being a bit tough on you. I'm looking for a good definition for torture (does a person being in pain necessitate they are being tortured as you have suggested above? No), and for a reason that isn't arbitrary or subjective.

When the atheist claims that people suffer eternal punishment for finite crimes they leave out an important qualification: against an eternal being. The argument should be: eternal punishment for finite crimes against an eternal being is immoral.

If I feel the need to apologize for something I did wrong, I apologize to the people I've wronged. If Yahweh and Jesus think I've wronged them, they should come down and we'll have a talk about it.

He did come down, at the incarnation, and is talking to you, through is word.

Human sacrifice doesn't help Humanity as a whole. That's why it isn't done in civilized areas. Morality that helps Humanity is that which helps the most people, and hurts the least. That's why all cultures criminalize murder, though all cultures have exceptions to this.

The standard by which you have developed your morality is the years of your life and the culture you grew up in. Historically speaking, other cultures have developed a morality based upon their culture and the years of their lives. If both moralities have been developed by the same standard, then what makes yours right and the other wrong? There is nothing to differentiate your moral code from a culture that practices human sacrifices. Both would be moral.

God's opinion of our worth is determined by our capacity to worship him.

References for this assertion.

He';s completely self serving, and sacrificing himself to himself to appease himself just makes his self serving nature all the more glaring.

If it were true that God sacrificing Himself to Himself was completely self serving, then there could be no benefit to anyone other than Himself. Yet, to those who place their faith and trust in Him have been given the gift of eternal life. It is not true that God's sacrifice is completely self serving.

If a god actually was PERFECT - then the very first perfection is would have is the ability to prove its own existence AND prove the lack of existence of all the other claimed gods

2 Kings 1
1 Kings 18
Exodus 7
etc.

Then again, "'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

TO date - no claimed supernatural god has ever had that ability - and just the fact that it does not have that ability proves the claim about the god is false.

Does ability necessitate doing? Perhaps God has the ability to prove His own existence and to prove the lack of existence of all the other claimed gods but chooses not to do so in the way you want Him to.

This is the answer as to why Jesus had to die, why the cross is necessary. Namely, it is how can God be completely merciful and just.

That's justice and logic? Imagine a big ruler has 100 commander servants who steal, rape, murder...and one day he calls them all in a meeting and tells them, I know all the deeds you do BUT, here's my son, I kill him,

God didn't kill Him. "18 No one takes it [His life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.” John 10:18.

and if you believe I killed him, your sins are forgiven.

To those who trust in the work of Christ.

You can go back to raping also!

A lie. " What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" Romans 6

Does that sound logical?

First refine your premises to accurately represent the Biblical position, then we can test the logic.

Is God illogical? God is very logical in its definition, it is the Christians that are illogical! It is mentioned in Ezekiel 18:20:

""The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.""

All true. The wages of my personal sin is death. I am not punished for Adam's sins but for my own.

You also mentioned Adam, I ask you, before eating the fruit, did Adam come and ask you? He didn't ask me also! So why should I be responsible for his sin, and if inherited, how was sin inherited?

You are responsible for your sin. Sin entered the world through one man and likewise salvation entered the world through one man (Romans 5:12-21).

And why was it not inherited in Jesus also!? So I hope this ends the argument and that brother orange realizes he worshiped a false belief.

Federal headship. Who was Jesus' father? Was it a man (who's head is Adam) or was it God the father?