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Gods supposed perfection
#95
RE: Gods supposed perfection
(October 15, 2014 at 5:05 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Morality is subjective, and changes over time,

If that is true, then no modern day standard of morality can be used to retroactively judge the morality of previous cultures. At best we can say, their actions weren't immoral for them then, just immoral for us now and what is moral for us now may be immoral in the future.

Furthermore no subjective statement can be used as a universally applied statement (that would make it an objective statement). An example of a subjective statement is: "The color orange is the best color." I may have good reasons for this (it's bright, it keeps road construction workers and hunters safe, it's a color and a fruit and that makes it unique...etc.) Certainly you would agree that an argument over what color is best could never determine which color is in fact best. If morality is subjective then it's a matter of opinion, like what color is best, and not universally applicable.
(October 15, 2014 at 5:05 pm)Chad32 Wrote: but a form of morality that helps the most people while hindering the least helps society grow faster. Killing people doesn't help the group, which is why it's normally illegal, and we know that killing people isn't going to stop a storm from blowing in, or the ground from shaking or a volcano from erupting. Unless you can come up with a sound reason for killing someone, and show that cutting someone's heart out on an altar really makes a difference, then you can't convince someone it's the right thing to do.
Of course you believe the above. You make this assertion according to the standard of morality you have developed through the years of your life and the culture you were raised in. You have been taught that the 'group' is most important, and that killing doesn't help the group, and that morality should help the most people while hindering the least. But again, that's subjective and therefore not universally applicable.
(October 15, 2014 at 5:05 pm)Chad32 Wrote: The most important thing Yahweh wants from you is worship. The main requirement for him accepting you or casting you out is worship. Regardless of any good deeds or bad deeds you have done in your life, the most important thing he's concerned about is whether or not you worship him. Even when you get to heaven, the main thing you'll be doing is worshiping him. That is the only thing Yahweh is concerned about, and the bible makes it clear that's where his priorities lie.
References?
(October 15, 2014 at 5:05 pm)Chad32 Wrote: He does not talk to me through a book written by people long ago that claimed to be inspired by him. If my mother wants to talk to me, she does not ask my sister to write a letter and send it to me. she actually calls me up and speaks to me.
So if God doesn't speak to you in the same way your mother speaks to you then God can't or doesn't speak to you?
(October 16, 2014 at 8:11 am)Ksa Wrote: And why does Jesus ignore Ezekiel 18:20 and takes on upon himself the sins of the world?
He didn't. Who was Jesus' father? Who was Jesus' son? Was Jesus punished for the sins of His father?
(October 16, 2014 at 8:28 am)Tonus Wrote:
(October 15, 2014 at 4:51 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: When the atheist claims that people suffer eternal punishment for finite crimes they leave out an important qualification: against an eternal being. The argument should be: eternal punishment for finite crimes against an eternal being is immoral.
I don't understand why that matters. We can extend that to its "logical" conclusion and assume that the punishment for a crime committed against a 1-year-old cannot last longer than one year.
That's an excellent point. If God's infiniteness was limited to His 'age' then your reducto absurdum would be well stated and I would agree with you. Is it true that God's infiniteness is limited to His age? No. He is eternal in age (Rev 1:8, 22:13), in knowledge (1 John 3:20), in presence (Jer 23:23-24). The point here is that a crime against an infinite being would be infinite in nature and would therefore require an infinite punishment.
(October 16, 2014 at 8:28 am)Tonus Wrote: I think the more accurate qualification would be "against a being of incomparable power" who can do as he pleases because no one is capable of staying his hand. But that factor, when combined with a moral code that amounts to "it's good if he says it's good" makes for a very scary deity.
Just include the qualifier of infinite to God's being, not just His age, and you'll do fine.
(October 16, 2014 at 10:42 am)polar bear Wrote: I spent 47 years of my life "not questioning my maker". When I asked some questions why there were so many inconsistent statements in the bible, I was told some bullshit about gods word is perfect and that we need to study it more to understand it.
How would you know the difference between the inconsistency being your understanding or the text?

If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?



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Messages In This Thread
Gods supposed perfection - by MistressD - October 2, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Lemonvariable72 - October 2, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Alex K - October 2, 2014 at 6:20 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 2, 2014 at 6:56 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Minimalist - October 2, 2014 at 6:23 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Lemonvariable72 - October 2, 2014 at 6:38 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by MistressD - October 2, 2014 at 6:51 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by vorlon13 - October 2, 2014 at 7:15 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by MistressD - October 2, 2014 at 6:56 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Alex K - October 2, 2014 at 7:01 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 2, 2014 at 7:57 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 2, 2014 at 7:07 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by MistressD - October 2, 2014 at 7:27 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Minimalist - October 2, 2014 at 7:53 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 7, 2014 at 10:46 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 11:10 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Mudhammam - October 7, 2014 at 4:23 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Losty - October 9, 2014 at 3:06 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Esquilax - October 9, 2014 at 5:00 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by downbeatplumb - October 11, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by polar bear - October 16, 2014 at 10:42 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Anomalocaris - October 7, 2014 at 10:56 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by bladevalant546 - October 7, 2014 at 10:58 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Anomalocaris - October 7, 2014 at 10:59 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 7, 2014 at 11:40 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 8, 2014 at 1:38 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 8, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 11:56 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Tonus - October 7, 2014 at 3:18 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 7, 2014 at 12:00 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 12:13 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Neo-Scholastic - October 7, 2014 at 12:50 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Thumpalumpacus - October 7, 2014 at 1:19 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 2:24 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 3:24 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by C4RM5 - October 7, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Tonus - October 7, 2014 at 4:01 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 7, 2014 at 4:41 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Thumpalumpacus - October 8, 2014 at 4:13 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Lemonvariable72 - October 8, 2014 at 5:34 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 3:41 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by C4RM5 - October 7, 2014 at 3:43 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Drich - October 7, 2014 at 9:38 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 7, 2014 at 10:05 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Alex K - October 8, 2014 at 3:28 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Mudhammam - October 8, 2014 at 3:31 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 8, 2014 at 3:37 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 8, 2014 at 3:44 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by FatAndFaithless - October 8, 2014 at 3:46 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 9, 2014 at 1:57 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 9, 2014 at 8:35 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by The Grand Nudger - October 9, 2014 at 2:51 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 9, 2014 at 12:08 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 9, 2014 at 3:37 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 10, 2014 at 1:53 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Esquilax - October 11, 2014 at 4:28 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Losty - October 12, 2014 at 3:01 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Losty - October 25, 2014 at 2:18 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 10, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 10, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 10, 2014 at 3:42 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 10, 2014 at 4:29 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 11, 2014 at 3:58 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 5:30 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Whateverist - October 11, 2014 at 6:11 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 11, 2014 at 10:37 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 11:25 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chas - October 11, 2014 at 12:08 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 11, 2014 at 12:20 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Whateverist - October 11, 2014 at 12:31 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 1:11 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 12:43 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 6:42 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Whateverist - October 11, 2014 at 10:53 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 11, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 11, 2014 at 1:14 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 11, 2014 at 1:31 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Little Rik - October 12, 2014 at 7:39 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 13, 2014 at 4:08 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 13, 2014 at 6:40 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 14, 2014 at 1:23 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Esquilax - October 17, 2014 at 11:37 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 14, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 15, 2014 at 4:51 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 15, 2014 at 5:05 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Tonus - October 16, 2014 at 8:28 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by ThomM - October 14, 2014 at 3:05 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 15, 2014 at 10:02 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by The Grand Nudger - October 15, 2014 at 5:15 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 16, 2014 at 8:11 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 16, 2014 at 11:49 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Tonus - October 17, 2014 at 5:57 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 17, 2014 at 9:10 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 17, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 17, 2014 at 1:13 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 17, 2014 at 1:46 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Ksa - October 17, 2014 at 2:31 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by downbeatplumb - October 19, 2014 at 5:01 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 19, 2014 at 4:18 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 19, 2014 at 5:08 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 19, 2014 at 9:20 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Aoi Magi - October 19, 2014 at 9:27 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 25, 2014 at 7:35 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by fr0d0 - October 25, 2014 at 4:57 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Cyberman - October 25, 2014 at 6:00 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by orangebox21 - October 26, 2014 at 12:34 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 26, 2014 at 10:33 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Esquilax - October 26, 2014 at 4:45 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 28, 2014 at 4:05 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by abaris - October 26, 2014 at 5:18 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Chad32 - October 28, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by LastPoet - October 28, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - October 30, 2014 at 3:25 pm
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by Nintentacle - November 5, 2014 at 6:21 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - November 5, 2014 at 6:35 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by simplemoss - November 5, 2014 at 6:56 am
RE: Gods supposed perfection - by robvalue - November 5, 2014 at 7:04 am

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