Gods supposed perfection

[Chad32]

I'm not 100% convinced but to the best of my knowledge I actually lean towards believing that God is, as you have put it, forced to punish people and that is 'why' He does it. Let me explain forced. I believe that sin against God necessitates punishment. If a part of God's nature is holiness and justice, then it would follow that in a legal setting God would have 'no choice' but to be just. In other words, justice would necessarily follow legal debt (sin). It's not a matter of will in that punishment is a choice, it's a matter that given the nature of God, justice will necessarily follow. In that sense, God is forced to punish.

He has placed His punishment upon His son for the sins of believers, and so there is mercy available, if you want it, if you believe it.

It's not the fact that he punishes people. It's the severity of the punishment. No one would tell a parent never discipline your children. But abandoning a young child because he understands the word No, despite not understanding why, or setting a child on fire for doing something wrong, is too extreme to ignore. There's a big different between punishing wrongdoers, and compeltely destroying and torturing them regardless of the crime.

We can judge past deeds by how they effect future society. Hindsight being 20/20, and all. So even though people kept slaves in the past, doing it because a book told them it was ok, or because they didn't believe differently colored people who still used bows in an age of guns weren't actually people, is not a good reason to own another Human being. Also since we know why earthquakes happen, and volcanoes erupt, and why lightning strikes, we can know that killing people to make it stop is wrong. Though I guess I'm talking more about things that are factually wrong than subjective morality.

Good observation. If things are factually wrong, that doesn't necessarily make them morally wrong. These are two separate categories.

Which of the following statements are facts?:
Rocks are hard.
Water is a liquid.
Orange is a color.
Blue is the coolest color.
Humans have brains.
Humans are smart.
Sacrificing a person will not stop a volcano from erupting.
It is wrong to sacrifice people to prevent volcanoes from erupting.

Some of these statements are facts, some are subjective, and some are moral. The sentence, 'orange is a color' is a non-moral, non-subjective, factual statement. The sentence 'blue is the coolest color' is a non-moral, non-factual, subjective statement. Claiming something to be morally wrong because as a statement it is factually wrong is illogical. If I said, blue is the coolest color because blue is a color, would you accept that blue is the coolest color? I hope not. Yet this is what you are doing when you say: "It is wrong to sacrifice people to prevent volcanoes from erupting because sacrificing a person will not stop a volcano from erupting." Certainly it is wrong to sacrifice a person to prevent volcanoes from erupting, but not because sacrificing a person will not stop a volcano from erupting. It is morally wrong, for moral reasons, not factual ones.

I guess the best way for me to convince someone that something is wrong is to show them objectively why it is wrong, instead of relying on subjective morals. It helps avoid the whole "fair for its time" problem. Sure Yahweh said try not to completely beat your slave to death, but it overlooks the problem that slavery is wrong. It's objectively wrong because being a different skin color, or being less enlightened, doesn't make other groups not Human.

References being the bible. Specifically things like the fact that the first four traditional commandments are strictly about him.

Scriptural reference that shows that the 10 commandments were written in order of importance.

The bible is littered with passages that state the most important thing to Yahweh is himself. The fact that he felt the only way to appease himself was to send a part of himself to sacrifice to himself just shows how self centered he is. The whole idea of original sin is that Yahweh believes us all to be evil because his first Humans dared to disobey him once.

We don't even get down to "thou shalt not murder" until number six, and Yahweh quickly made an exception to that rule when he told Moses to kill his followers for erecting a golden calf after wandering in the desert for forty years.

Is the same Hebrew word for 'kill' used in both places?

After all the English language has words like 'kill' and 'murder'. When someone is on trial for killing, we say on trial for murder. Yet, if a soldier kills another soldier in the context of war, it is not considered murder.

There seem to be more cases in which you're allowed to end someone's life, than when you're not allowed to. so I'm not sure what the point of that commandment was.

Which he had them do as a test to see which ones would remain eternally loyal to him. How could you read the bible and not see that the main thing, if not the only thing, your god cares about is people worshiping him?

I always saw that the main thing was the revelation of God and His plan of salvation through His son Jesus Christ.

We sure, because you're a christian. If you lived during the thousand years or so before then, I doubt you would have. Or if you grew up in a jewish home that rejects the new testament.

Yes. If your god is a person, he should be able to talk to me like a person.
Show up,

Like 2000 years ago.

maybe do some things that defy physics to show he's not a normal Human being,

Like feed a crowd with a small amount of food, or change water into wine, or walk on water, or heal the sick with a touch, or....

and we can have a talk. Not some messed up book with contradictory lessons, or some christian saying this is how I should interpret the passages.

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach. (James 1:5)

You have what you have asked for, but if you do not believe the words of the Bible, you wouldn't believe it if someone came to you and claimed to be God, however convincing the experience.

This may come as a surprise to you, but I wasn't alive 2,000 years ago. Whatever events people claimed to have happened and wrote in a book don't really apply to me. Regardless of what holy book we're talking about.