RE: Belief and Knowledge
November 3, 2014 at 1:04 pm
(This post was last modified: November 3, 2014 at 1:48 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Why - and particularly why god as opposed to any other "unseen cause" (notice here that we are still..you and I both, referring to causality even though we are entertaining QM - neither of us have been required to make any choice between the two) the field for which must be infinite almost by definition. Even allowing the suggestion of an unseen(or even harder, an "un-seeable") cause - this still does not yield a god. A further suggestion is required, which you have supplied. It;s not the evidence suggesting god, in other words. It's you. Did...and I'm just loving this one these past few days - the evidence suggest that some god made it rain, before we discovered elsewise? What evidence suggested that? In what way is this example you've offered different?
I understand that you don;t feel that this is an argument from ignorance - and I have a suggestion as to why that might be so. You feel that because we know that there is no local cause for some given event - that you are arguing from a point of knowledge (not ignorance). That would be fine, as long as you stuck to that narrow fact. You are, instead, positing the "unseen unknown cause" behind that known non local. You're arguing a related (rhetorically), but not equivalent point. Understand? Drawing the data and making the conclusions regarding one subject - but misattributing them to the other. Your hidden cause behind the known lack of local cause is an additional and cumbersome argument from ignorance. To claim that the evidence suggests this with nothing more than the claim itself as evidence isn't likely to yield any informative data about the issue at hand.
But suppose that the evidence did suggest god? Okay, we're in the situation I mentioned before. We have two explanations that would seem to fit the evidence. Now make some predictions. Get some of those checkmarks.
Do work. If the other guys are busting their asses and you aren't even trying to keep up I don't see why you would expect to find yourself in any situation other than the one you are in. Those folks have done, and continue to do- the work..and show their work. Is it really that surprising that people would throw their chips in with that lot, as opposed to the lot that makes claims and lets them hang in the air? Personally, I'm tired of testimonials and claims. I want to see some religious -work-. Shy of producing a god that's all that I have the patience for anymore - from those seriously intent on advancing the god position. I want to see that the god position can at least produce the quality of work - to a similar standard- that it;s opposition does. Otherwise, I'm laying the responsibility for the decline of religion solely on the shoulders of those advancing the position for having failed to so much as make the effort.
I understand that you don;t feel that this is an argument from ignorance - and I have a suggestion as to why that might be so. You feel that because we know that there is no local cause for some given event - that you are arguing from a point of knowledge (not ignorance). That would be fine, as long as you stuck to that narrow fact. You are, instead, positing the "unseen unknown cause" behind that known non local. You're arguing a related (rhetorically), but not equivalent point. Understand? Drawing the data and making the conclusions regarding one subject - but misattributing them to the other. Your hidden cause behind the known lack of local cause is an additional and cumbersome argument from ignorance. To claim that the evidence suggests this with nothing more than the claim itself as evidence isn't likely to yield any informative data about the issue at hand.
But suppose that the evidence did suggest god? Okay, we're in the situation I mentioned before. We have two explanations that would seem to fit the evidence. Now make some predictions. Get some of those checkmarks.
Do work. If the other guys are busting their asses and you aren't even trying to keep up I don't see why you would expect to find yourself in any situation other than the one you are in. Those folks have done, and continue to do- the work..and show their work. Is it really that surprising that people would throw their chips in with that lot, as opposed to the lot that makes claims and lets them hang in the air? Personally, I'm tired of testimonials and claims. I want to see some religious -work-. Shy of producing a god that's all that I have the patience for anymore - from those seriously intent on advancing the god position. I want to see that the god position can at least produce the quality of work - to a similar standard- that it;s opposition does. Otherwise, I'm laying the responsibility for the decline of religion solely on the shoulders of those advancing the position for having failed to so much as make the effort.
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