(November 5, 2014 at 7:00 pm)IDScience Wrote:I feel like I've wasted half an hour of typing...(November 4, 2014 at 5:26 am)pocaracas Wrote: I think you're mixing belief with reality. Yes, in reality either the cake exists or it doesn't.
However, my belief over the existence of the cake has more than two states.
I'll give you an example straight out of Quantum mechanics.
This gives rise to the many worlds hypothesis to prevent the violation of the 1st law. Most quantum physicists believe when the wave function collapses into what we observe, all other possible variations also collapse into a definite reality in another quantum world. So every superposition is a reality waiting to be observed. Not just a possibility
You either believe there is an invisible pink unicorn in the box with schrodinger's cat or you don't believe it. If you don't believe there is a invisible pink unicorn in the box, you must believe (not know) there is not a invisible pink unicorn in the box with the cat
Remember, we are not taking about what we know reality is, or what will eventually be proven reality, we are talking about what you believe reality is
And if you don't believe reality is X, you must believe (not know) reality is not X. If you believe there is any chance God could be a reality, then being an atheist is illogical, your better off remaining undecided (or agnostic). If you do not believe God exists, then have some intestinal fortitude and admit you believe God does not exist because that is the logical extension what your position is
And here go a few more minutes...
There is a box.
1.
The claim (made by whoever) is: There is a pink unicorn inside the box.
I know nothing about this box.
I know the claimant knows nothing about the box as well.
Why should I believe the claim?
Why should I believe that there's no pink unicorn in the box?
2.
The claim is: There is no pink unicorn inside the box.
I know nothing about this box.
I know the claimant knows nothing about the box as well.
Why should I believe the claim?
Why should I believe that there's a pink unicorn in the box?
Remember, my disbelief is in the claim of the existence of a god. A claim made by the believers, who learned of it from other believers, who, in turn, learned of it from other believers... who... in turn.... ah, you know... it's a near endless cycle of indoctrinations... the claim has a few variations through time, that's one of the reasons why we see several religions.
Some of us either don't get indoctrinated, or manage to shake it off...
The claim.
The belief in the existence of the god itself comes after you believe in the claim. You'll require a very active imagination to come up with the concept of a god by yourself, without having been presented with the claim first... sadly, the claim is almost omnipresent on this planet and there very few places where you can find humans who haven't been presented that claim.
There is... was... a tribe in the Amazon that qualified... the piraha.
On the other hand, the disbelief in the claim necessarily leads to the disbelief in the existence of the god.