(July 7, 2010 at 2:00 am)tackattack Wrote: I wouldn't know how to wrap my head around how to percieve something like eing love without the ability to perceive....come again?
tackattack Wrote:2-I hate reusing old analogies but, can't the creator of the cuckoo clock claim creation over his work?I also hate analogies that borrow from the flawed Watchmaker Argument too, so let's not go down that road please.
tackattack Wrote:God is omnipotent in relation to the confines of our universe, only in that he wouldn't willfully destroy wholly what he's created not that he is lacking in power.So... God is not omnipotent then? Or do you regard the universe as infinite? Again I really hate pressing you for question after question all the time but your statements lately are lacking any explanatory power and are becoming increasingly vague.
tackattack Wrote:3- I didn't know I was back peddaling to Annihilationism, I thought I as talking aboutit the whole time.If you were arguing for Annihilationism this entire time then I apologise for not understanding your position earlier. Nevertheless I still find this omniscient god-concept's 'last resort' to be unacceptable; surely a being of greater intellectual capacity than ours can find a humane solution to his out-of-control-creation that doesn't involve destroying good-hearted people who simply could not believe in him?
tackattack Wrote:Ultimately the wages of sin is death. Be it quick, painful, once or twice, oblivion I feel is an appropriate punishment.So whatever god says goes basically. It's sad you're so hopelessly convinced that you can't admit you're way more moral than a Hebrew tribal deity who advocated slavery and the murdering of first-born infants, i.e. God.
And anyway as far as we can know anything within the context of practical meaningful knowledge, 'oblivion' is not an accurate statement by any stretch of the imagination, its safe to say after I'm long dead, the atoms that once made me up will still be around for a good few quadrillion years, assuming black holes don't break them into x-rays/gamma radiation before they too evaporate away.
tackattack Wrote:I didn't say you were fuel for God's wrath as you have it. Firstly, I don't believe in eternal torment, but I do believe in hell as a place separate from God and built for the fallen. Secondly I think wrathfullnes isn't a trait I see in God so I don't attribute it as any more than man's personifications.Hooray for contradictory positions, so you don't believe in eternal suffering only eternal consequences which is still immoral and unjust yet you also harbour a belief in Hell; literally a place or state where the damned are in eternal torment. Hell is separate from God, yet you simultaneously hold the belief God is Omnipresent, therefore by extension he is everywhere, including the Hell of his own making.
Even when I was young theist I found it strenuous to overlook the complete and utter destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the flooding of the world in Noah's time as anything but the acts of a wrathful, vengeful tyrant, primarily because the ends simply didn't justify the means. The cities and early peoples were of no threat to this creator or his dominion, yet he was so filled with hatred he utterly wiped them out, he didn't even try to rebuke them or correct their errors.
tackattack Wrote:Lastly, To answer your question, if God were wrathful the object of his wrath would be the sin, not his creation.Love the sinner yet hate the sin huh? What a load of bloody bullshit tack - that's certainly not what you've been arguing these past several posts. According to your doctrine, I fry, horribly, end of story, regardless of the punishment's duration.
tackattack Wrote:4-I'm not saying what happens on the day of judgment isn't clear on what happens to the unrepennant. It is clear on that. I don't assume that once we die it's immediately to the judgement.What difference does it make? The second death is still the only outcome for me according to your faith regardless of prior events and timescale. I see no reason to address this because that's not what you were arguing earlier.
tackattack Wrote:ANswer to: Do you think that infinite punishment for finite crime is just? No, but the fire of hell consumes to oblivion, therefore not eternal. While the fire may be eternal the torment isn't, I don't think I've gotten that across to you clearly yet.You don't appreciate that is eternal; since the consequences of simply disbelieving in God/Jesus in this single short lifespan (70-100 years at best) are everlasting. I'm saddened you could conceive of a standard that punishes me eternally for simply living my life as best as I can, yet others who could have been absolute dicks to their fellow man who believed in god wholeheartedly can stand to reap the rewards of eternal life in paradise. It's not just, regardless of whether I want to live on after death or not, besides my family would be heartbroken assuming they didn't share my doom; there are others no doubt who are terribly afraid of ceasing to exist that I also can't ignore.