(November 28, 2014 at 2:22 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Do you care about people at all? If so, there's your answer. If not... well, you've already baselessly locked us out of using pragmatic concerns, so...
This is such a weird, inconsistent question you have. Theists might say not to be immoral because god, but I don't see you asking them the same questions you're asking me when I give you a secular reason not to be immoral.
Oh, I shouldn't be immoral because of god? Why not? Why shouldn't I just be an exception to that if I know nobody else will, so it benefits me?
... Well, why aren't you asking that to them, Vincent? Why are you pretending that "because god" is an actual answer to the question you're asking me? It's not; the same question applies to the theists. And they can't use hell as an answer to that question either, because you've discounted prison as a reason I can use, so obviously you're not content with simply referring to the consequences of an action as a reason.
Ultimately neither side has an objective sure shot answer to this question, but at least the atheist side appeals to things we know actually exists. And might I say, the inconsistency of your questioning, the focus on just pushing it on atheism, is very suspicious.
Firstly, I agree with you that when a theist says God is their reason for being moral is a bad answer but it is there answer always. I'm asking this question aimed at atheists because I want people to be able to answer this question for when it is asked to an atheist by a theist.
I'm discounting fear of prison as a reason because you would not say that reason to a theist. They would immediately ask what if you knew you wouldn't get caught.
You say do you care about people which is the main question and is in reality the reason why atheists are moral. A theist will ask why 'should' you care about people if you don't believe there's a god. This is the question that I wanted answering.
