OK made it back: had to prove I'm not as misanthropic as some here think...fixed supper and spent time with first husband and #2 son.
I used the word 'destroy' advisedly. It could mean to cause economic destruction, cultural destruction or perhaps just cultural assimilation. It was satisfying to see Creed of Heresy jump immediately from destroy to kill. It is the same reaction exhibited by some who equate depopulation with genocide. Just to be clear and in the extreme, if you stop having babies, in a relatively short time your population will collapse and you will be depopulated. No killing required.
The following is not a typically humanist position though it shows Creed's proclivities:
I admit to some bias in favor of elephants because I see their plight as one reaching its final phase. Because the reaction of the majority of humans matches the knee-jerk stupidity of Creed, I expect the african elephant species to go extinct in my lifetime.
http://Central Africa has lost 64 percen... a decade.
We are utterly dependent on environmental services yet we continue to live our lives as if we were early European immigrants to the new world. When you've exhausted the resources in your immediate area. When your family has outgrown the family plot in Connecticut just move west. Well, there is no more west to move to. Ryantology has a more measured and I think reasonable position; that inequities in the population leads members at the bottom of the pile to destructive acts of desperation for which they can be forgiven. I can respect that attitude, but I think it is and has been shown to be inadequate. We live as biological entities in an environment where the majority of the pressures come from the invisible hand of unguided economics. Where individuals strictly act in their own best interests with the expectation that eventually all will benefit. This ignores the evident fact that human populations are limited by the carrying capacity of their environment.
I think we're screwed. That any moves we make to come into a more rational, sustainable equilibrium with our surroundings are coming as too little, too late. The elephants will all be killed and big oil will buy enough PR and politicians to keep climate change cooking. Eventually, through some unpleasantness, perhaps crop failure from extended drought, technological civilization collapses ( link to book on historical collapse of Anasazi,Mayan and other civilations)
I'd prefer the elephants, chimps and gorillas as social, intelligent individuals survive this transition. I don't expect they will.
JuliaL Wrote:For instance, given the ability, I would probably destroy all humans who poach elephants,
I used the word 'destroy' advisedly. It could mean to cause economic destruction, cultural destruction or perhaps just cultural assimilation. It was satisfying to see Creed of Heresy jump immediately from destroy to kill. It is the same reaction exhibited by some who equate depopulation with genocide. Just to be clear and in the extreme, if you stop having babies, in a relatively short time your population will collapse and you will be depopulated. No killing required.
The following is not a typically humanist position though it shows Creed's proclivities:
Creed of Heresy Wrote:There are always going to be human beings who deserve nothing but swift termination.
Creed of Heresy Wrote:I suddenly find myself liking you a lot less. ... I'll give you the chance to recant, but if you find yourself not wishing to do so, I'm just going to tell you this: We're gonna have problems going forward.Fine, challenge accepted.
I admit to some bias in favor of elephants because I see their plight as one reaching its final phase. Because the reaction of the majority of humans matches the knee-jerk stupidity of Creed, I expect the african elephant species to go extinct in my lifetime.
http://Central Africa has lost 64 percen... a decade.
Quote:Central Africa has lost 64 percent of its elephants in a decade.Some of my bias against the human populations comes from a conservative self interest. Despite our hubris, we do not understand what it takes to maintain a functioning ecosystem. Climate change is a current example but not the only one. If the maritime oxygen producing organisms go belly up, how long can you hold your breath?
We are utterly dependent on environmental services yet we continue to live our lives as if we were early European immigrants to the new world. When you've exhausted the resources in your immediate area. When your family has outgrown the family plot in Connecticut just move west. Well, there is no more west to move to. Ryantology has a more measured and I think reasonable position; that inequities in the population leads members at the bottom of the pile to destructive acts of desperation for which they can be forgiven. I can respect that attitude, but I think it is and has been shown to be inadequate. We live as biological entities in an environment where the majority of the pressures come from the invisible hand of unguided economics. Where individuals strictly act in their own best interests with the expectation that eventually all will benefit. This ignores the evident fact that human populations are limited by the carrying capacity of their environment.
I think we're screwed. That any moves we make to come into a more rational, sustainable equilibrium with our surroundings are coming as too little, too late. The elephants will all be killed and big oil will buy enough PR and politicians to keep climate change cooking. Eventually, through some unpleasantness, perhaps crop failure from extended drought, technological civilization collapses ( link to book on historical collapse of Anasazi,Mayan and other civilations)
I'd prefer the elephants, chimps and gorillas as social, intelligent individuals survive this transition. I don't expect they will.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
