RE: White Pride?
January 4, 2015 at 6:13 pm
(This post was last modified: January 4, 2015 at 6:21 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(January 3, 2015 at 12:07 pm)JuliaL Wrote:(January 3, 2015 at 6:41 am)Losty Wrote: I'm sorry I don't know if I'm just super dense today...but I honestly don't see how either of your responses were relevant to my post. I'm not a member of a real tribe...
Killing someone for doing whatever it takes to feed their children is pretty fucking sick if you ask me.
Your apology is not required.
I don't know what you mean by a 'real' tribe. I used that term for convenience in referring to identifiable replicating patterns which include you. You are, by definition, members of these patterns and you and they may or may not profit from your membership. These replicating patterns are subject to natural selection as are all replicating patterns. Those patterns which persist and replicate best are those patterns which we observe. The characteristics which allow them to persist and replicate may be considered 'good' in the context of their persistence and replication.
For example, your distain for killing starving children would be 'good' for the replication and persistence of humans and by extension human society. It would not be good from the standpoint of an elephant whose children would be threatened by the flourishing of the human population.
As a human, I find human suffering disagreeable. I also find the gratuitous death of human children evil. However, I try to consider viewpoints other than my own. From the contexts of the above replicators e.g. the elephant or more abstractly, human society you get different answers. Is bacon good? Most people you ask say yes! but the pig would disagree.
Lilith? Is that you?!
(January 3, 2015 at 8:52 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Animals can, indeed, feel pain. However, they cannot reason, they cannot rationalize, and they have no personalities. We know this because of neuroscience; the human frontal lobe is unique in the animal kingdom, and the human frontal lobe is where personality and reasoning come from, ergo to value a non-person to the equal level of a person is a far less reasoned stance to have than my response of "you're sick," which, by the way, is VERY reasonable, given what it was that you had said which I had been addressing.
The idea that animals cannot reason is ignorant of the facts on the ground. The simple fact that you can train a dog to sit means that the animal can reason at least to the extent of if I sit when he commands, I'll get a pat on the head or a treat.
As for rationalization, we've seen primates -- chimps and orangutans practice deception upon other individuals, including humans.
And personality? Well, if you don't think higher-order animals have personality, I don't know what to tell you. It seems so obvious to me that I haven't really put together an argument to support it, the same as I haven't constructed an argument for the proposition that breathing is useful for living beings.