RE: Idealism is more Rational than Materialism
February 2, 2015 at 10:22 am
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 10:26 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 2, 2015 at 10:07 am)Rational AKD Wrote: consciousness is the quality or state of awareness. this includes being aware objects you perceive and being aware of yourself.Pretty sure you just attempted definition by synonym - I'm afraid I still have no idea what you mean. I suppose I was hoping for a more robust explanation of what consciousness was from your POV.
Quote:to doubt is to express uncertainty.Oh, you mean....like an OR gate?
Quote: you can't be uncertain without being aware.OR gates can..........why can't I?
Quote:it is impossible to conceptualize a situation where "I think, but I am not"Of course..because the cogito assumes it's conclusion, as we do.
Quote: because there needs to be an "I" in order to have "I think." to say otherwise is contradicting yourself.and to say so is to assume your conclusion. Frustrating, huh? Nevertheless, neither position speaks to any disagreement between materialism and idealism....understand?
Quote:even so, it's still a world in your head without need for actual physical substances.Except that my head is a physical place which holds my physical brain which does in fact appear to be required for that "world" to exist. Remove or damage the brain, remove or damage the "world".
Quote: regardless of what you think is behind dreams, it can't be disputed there are no physical objects in dreams. just mental projections of physical objects.Uh, yeah, it can, because I think that dreams, again, are a description of the state of a physical machine. "Mental projections" are physical things, understand?
Quote:I am saying even if you're a materialist, you can't deny your experience is mental.Why would I, but I understand that "mental" is a category of physical things.
Quote: the physical world has no color, no taste, no sound.strange........seems to...are you denying your experience?
Quote: yet these are all things you perceive.Sure, they're all descriptions of the functions of various machines.
Quote:materialists thing it's just the brain creating an interpretation of reality and causing us to perceive.Not causing - the brain -is- the perception.
Quote: regardless, it's undeniable that we experience a world that is a mentally constructed.Depends, I think that if I made that stement in my own chosen terms you'd dispute the shit out of it....lol
Quote:so why think the mind is creating this world based of an interpretation of the brain?because we understand quite a bit about the machine, it's limits, it's faults.....
Quote:it takes less assumptions to assert the mind is creating the world rather interpreting it from an unobservable substance.That's an awfully big assumption. Especially since things with no "mind" appear to be able to observe this "unobservable substance" of yours.
Quote:it is your awareness. you are aware of your dreams yet they are not comprised of physical objects.Again, definition by sysnonym is a whole hell of alot less than I was expecting...and I -do- think that my dreams are physical objects.
Quote: I know you think dreams are caused by physical processes,No...I think that they -are- that physical process...not that they are created -by- it.
Quote: but you can't deny the what you perceive in them is not physical.I can and have...and you need to stop making these sorts of assertions.....
Quote: dreams are imaginary.sure..and?
Quote: I think you can acknowledge a difference between imaginary and material objects.Sure, but it isn't the difference that you need it to be, it isn;t a difference relevant to materialsim vs idealism.
Quote:therefore you regularly conceive of a world that is mentally constructed,exactly, descriptions of a physical machine taking inputs from a physical world and doing physical work with them.
Quote: regardless of what you think causes mind.I don't think that anything -causes- mind...I think that "mind" -is- brain, at least so far as the human implementation thereof.
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