(February 18, 2015 at 8:43 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:(February 18, 2015 at 8:16 pm)IATIA Wrote: And there is still nothing said of descendants, only others that are not present at this particular get together.
Didn't see the part about foreknowledge/predestination? this means to know something before hand...
Predestination means that there is a FIXED chain of events or causality is fixed (derived from St.Augustine's book and his knowledge of the New Testament which he uses to refute claims by Pagans of his time and previous eras).
Which means there is a creator that knows who is saved and not saved from the fire.
We are talking about the acts of human beings being already known. The previous acts would determine if they are saved or not.
I posted two main points, in the original post, concerning the acts of human beings but most specifically Christian human beings:
1. The self-defense mechanism
2. The will to attain wealth
Romans 8:1-15, is very differentiating concerning what constitute the most important ingredient of being a christian in this material world(flesh): That is to let stay away from it(material world=Flesh) and go after the spirit.
The previous points means that those after the first several generation of Christians are in the fire(rather "destined" for Hell). Let see, the first Christians to attain the Roman government was around 200 A.D.! Then afterwards these "Christians" violated the two points presented (or actually followed the "flesh" of this material world).
Ok, this means that the topic of predestination was a subtopic and not really the central issue. The central issue are the acts ( and sayings ) of the New Testament writers and their social environment to determine if they received a valid ( or contradictory ) command from the previous creator.
If it is contradictory...then there is no creator...then no predestination.
If it is valid...then there is a creator(Jesus/God)...there is predestination.
*There is a contradiction in acts and sayings therefore there is no predestination.*
