You should reread or maybe take some literary classes first. The group is addressed, not the descendants of the group.

(February 18, 2015 at 7:54 pm)IATIA Wrote: You should reread or maybe take some literary classes first. The group is addressed, not the descendants of the group.

He's addressing everyone that reads/hears his words, he has ALL his future followers in mind (predestination) since God foreknew all that accept his word.

Quote:John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Quote:Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And there is still nothing said of descendants, only others that are not present at this particular get together.

(February 18, 2015 at 8:16 pm)IATIA Wrote: And there is still nothing said of descendants, only others that are not present at this particular get together.

Didn't see the part about foreknowledge/predestination? this means to know something before hand...

The main point of jesusism is that a dead jew on a stick came back to life and then flew up to heaven.

As such, it is one of the stupidest stories ever written and anyone who accepts it is an asshole.

(February 18, 2015 at 8:43 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

Quote:Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

(February 18, 2015 at 8:16 pm)IATIA Wrote: And there is still nothing said of descendants, only others that are not present at this particular get together.

Didn't see the part about foreknowledge/predestination? this means to know something before hand...

Romans 8 does not address Luke 21:29-32.

@ IATIA, you have to take all the verses that deal with the future and find the ones that have a definite meaning, in other word those that can be translated into only one meaning, the rest have to come together with them. Sometimes not so easy.

GC

(February 18, 2015 at 8:43 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 18, 2015 at 8:16 pm)IATIA Wrote: And there is still nothing said of descendants, only others that are not present at this particular get together.

Didn't see the part about foreknowledge/predestination? this means to know something before hand...

Predestination means that there is a FIXED chain of events or causality is fixed (derived from St.Augustine's book and his knowledge of the New Testament which he uses to refute claims by Pagans of his time and previous eras).

Which means there is a creator that knows who is saved and not saved from the fire.

We are talking about the acts of human beings being already known. The previous acts would determine if they are saved or not.

I posted two main points, in the original post, concerning the acts of human beings but most specifically Christian human beings:

1. The self-defense mechanism
2. The will to attain wealth

Romans 8:1-15, is very differentiating concerning what constitute the most important ingredient of being a christian in this material world(flesh): That is to let stay away from it(material world=Flesh) and go after the spirit.

The previous points means that those after the first several generation of Christians are in the fire(rather "destined" for Hell). Let see, the first Christians to attain the Roman government was around 200 A.D.! Then afterwards these "Christians" violated the two points presented (or actually followed the "flesh" of this material world).

Ok, this means that the topic of predestination was a subtopic and not really the central issue. The central issue are the acts ( and sayings ) of the New Testament writers and their social environment to determine if they received a valid ( or contradictory ) command from the previous creator.

If it is contradictory...then there is no creator...then no predestination.

If it is valid...then there is a creator(Jesus/God)...there is predestination.

*There is a contradiction in acts and sayings therefore there is no predestination.*

(February 18, 2015 at 8:12 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: He's addressing everyone that reads/hears his words, he has ALL his future followers in mind (predestination) since God foreknew all that accept his word.

What a load of shit. All this foreknowledge mysteriously didn't result in the need to teach himself to write shit down for posterity's sake. This makes your argument that anyone has ever read God's word preposterous. Assuming Jesus was real, nobody that actually heard his words wrote shit down either making the heard part complete bullshit too. What again was this bit about foreknowledge?