(February 22, 2015 at 1:02 am)The Reality Salesman Wrote:(February 21, 2015 at 9:51 pm)ether-ore Wrote:
You told me why you prefer the religion over Islam. You didn't tell me why your God was real and theirs was not. You did point out that in the Muslim translation of The Book of Mormon that God is written as "Allah", and that's because the word for God in that language is Allah. The same is true for any number of monotheistic religious books printed in the native language of the country they are sold. But if all you noticed was the translation of the word "god" from english to Arabic then you missed a few details. The two religions of Islam and LDS/Christianity are not compatible with regards to where non-followers go. It may be true that people of your following are more optimistic on the fate of those who don't share the same belief, but none of that has anything to do with the undeniable fact that the doctrines written in the Quran and the Bible make it explicitly clear that one is right and the other is wrong.
You may think otherwise, and that's fine. But I want to put a flag in the ground, right here, and make sure you acknowledge that all of that need not matter so long as a literal interpretation of the texts exists, and there are people who believe it.
If a Martyr is willing to strap a bomb to his chest and blow your family up for not following the literal word of the Quran, they are doing this because they are convinced that their God is real, and yours is a fake.
I ask you again. How do you know that their God is not real. Do not mention to me their religion again. I am asking you specifically about your God and theirs. They have a God that they believe to be real; they are so sure as to be willing to commit suicide in some cases in order to demonstrate their faith. I'm not asking you to commit suicide, but I am asking you to tell me how you can be as sure as one who will and did commit suicide. How do you know that their Allah is the wrong God and that you, yourself, should not be doing as they do?
I felt I gave you the best answer I could, but I'll repeat myself. We both, you and I, do understand that the existence of God cannot be proved. The only things we can know about Him are what He condescend to reveal to us through His prophets. I happen to accept the reported eye witness accounts of these prophets who have reported the same story over the millennia. I find that story to be consistent and coherent. The information I understand from these prophets tells me that God is indeed concerned about us as His children. It tells me that God is doing His best to teach us how to how to live joyful lives through obedience to His laws without violating our agency.
I reject the interpretation of the God of Islam, because I see what you just pointed out as being the reason that their interpretation of God is wrong; i.e.... they are willing to strap bomb themselves and kill other people. As I tried to point out, the only determining factor about the nature of God that we have is what He has revealed in terms of what He expects of us. This expectation tells us how He feels about all of His children. From all the scriptures I have access to in the LDS canon, the message is that God is assisting us on a path of progression, not because we deserve it, but because He loves us.
The evidence from the Koran concerning God and His expectation, stands alone. That book is not connected in any way to other scripture. The things Islam says about the nature of God are demonstrated in their willingness to violence rather than charity. Accordingly, they interpret their God to be controlling as in, He would disallow agency. They interpret Him and being completely intolerant of anyone outside of Islam which would deny the purposes that I as LDS understand as His love and concern for all of His children. Their God's attitude would seem to be that we are not here to learn and progress through the use of our agency, that it is rather to be compliant without any opportunity for understanding, but simply abide Sharia law regardless of how you feel about it. My God has granted agency; theirs has not.
Muslims may claim that Allah is merciful and that Islam is a religion of peace, but the actions of some of their adherents belie that. That the so called majority of Muslims are peaceful is something I also challenge on the grounds that within their own culture and within the strictures of Sharia law, they do absolutely nothing to curtail the activities of those who murder. In Christianity there is a saying that by their fruits, ye shall know them. The same goes for the interpretation of the nature of God. The actions of the individual demonstrate his attitude toward and understanding of the nature of God and His purposes for us. And this applies to all of God's children, not just Muslims.
You demand (as If I owed you something) that I demonstrate somehow "How do you know that their God is not real"? A coupe of things... I could care less about the flag you threw to the ground, I am not subservient that you should talk down to me; and you are at all times able to reject anything I say... that is your agency which I respect. a Muslim would not respect your agency. Also your demanded that I "Do not" mention Islam again as if to say I 'must', or I am somehow obligated to supply you with an answer on your terms. I'll tell you again, God can only be known through what He condescends to reveal and through the actions of His followers. One, then must make an evaluation of the scriptural accounts. The information provided concerning God is entirely different within the two canons. It is only through this that the "reality" of God can be evaluated and determined.
Once again... it is the message that tells you what you need to know about the nature and reality of God, assuming you want to know anything about God at all. Your info doesn't tell me anything about you religious persuasion. So, since you have not accurately or sufficiently defined that so that others can know where you are coming from, I assume you are an atheist on the grounds that this is an atheist forum and unless you identify yourself otherwise, that is the assumption I'll make. If I am correct, I then question the purpose of this exchange. I have admitted that God cannot be proven to the satisfaction of any atheist. That is a matter of faith (based on reason) that atheists reject out of hand. So I wonder, what are your reasons or motivations for asking about any God?
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Christian recall notice
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Christian recall notice - by KUSA - February 18, 2015 at 9:04 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Minimalist - February 18, 2015 at 9:06 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by SteelCurtain - February 18, 2015 at 9:14 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Natachan - February 18, 2015 at 9:18 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by watchamadoodle - February 18, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 18, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Valkyrie - February 18, 2015 at 9:32 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Strongbad - February 19, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chad32 - February 19, 2015 at 9:26 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Nope - February 21, 2015 at 11:05 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Minimalist - February 18, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chad32 - February 18, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Spooky - February 18, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Faith No More - February 18, 2015 at 10:07 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 18, 2015 at 11:52 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chad32 - February 18, 2015 at 11:58 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Drich - February 19, 2015 at 12:31 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by psychoslice - February 19, 2015 at 1:04 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Minimalist - February 19, 2015 at 2:33 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 19, 2015 at 2:36 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Minimalist - February 23, 2015 at 12:50 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 20, 2015 at 7:35 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chas - February 20, 2015 at 8:22 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 20, 2015 at 10:21 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 20, 2015 at 11:59 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chas - February 22, 2015 at 9:11 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cato - February 19, 2015 at 3:46 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 19, 2015 at 4:07 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Fidel_Castronaut - February 19, 2015 at 4:33 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 19, 2015 at 4:35 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Nope - February 21, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 19, 2015 at 6:05 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Homeless Nutter - February 19, 2015 at 6:28 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 19, 2015 at 8:38 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 19, 2015 at 8:38 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Dragonetti - February 20, 2015 at 7:48 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Norman Humann - February 20, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by rexbeccarox - February 20, 2015 at 7:56 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by JesusHChrist - February 20, 2015 at 9:15 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Losty - February 20, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Brakeman - February 21, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by JesusHChrist - February 21, 2015 at 2:26 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 21, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 21, 2015 at 10:26 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 10:45 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 21, 2015 at 12:54 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by SteelCurtain - February 21, 2015 at 12:58 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 3:17 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chad32 - February 21, 2015 at 10:55 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Norman Humann - February 21, 2015 at 10:56 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Wiggy - February 21, 2015 at 11:01 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Norman Humann - February 21, 2015 at 11:02 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Brakeman - February 21, 2015 at 12:30 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 21, 2015 at 5:29 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 6:19 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 21, 2015 at 9:51 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 1:02 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 22, 2015 at 11:10 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Brakeman - February 22, 2015 at 5:16 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 22, 2015 at 2:12 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Brakeman - February 22, 2015 at 1:12 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 1:30 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 21, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 21, 2015 at 11:17 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Nope - February 21, 2015 at 11:14 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chad32 - February 21, 2015 at 11:23 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 21, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by SteelCurtain - February 21, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 11:17 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 21, 2015 at 11:31 am
Christian recall notice - by KUSA - February 21, 2015 at 11:49 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by JesusHChrist - February 21, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 21, 2015 at 3:09 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 21, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Brakeman - February 21, 2015 at 3:23 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Tonus - February 21, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 21, 2015 at 3:26 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 3:28 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 4:58 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chad32 - February 21, 2015 at 7:08 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chad32 - February 21, 2015 at 7:17 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 21, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Chad32 - February 21, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 21, 2015 at 8:55 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 21, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 22, 2015 at 2:43 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 22, 2015 at 3:34 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 3:01 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 22, 2015 at 3:20 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 22, 2015 at 3:48 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Tonus - February 22, 2015 at 8:54 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by Mr.wizard - February 22, 2015 at 12:08 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 22, 2015 at 3:46 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Mr.wizard - February 22, 2015 at 5:24 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 22, 2015 at 11:34 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 22, 2015 at 5:25 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 6:51 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 22, 2015 at 7:26 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Mr.wizard - February 22, 2015 at 2:35 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Losty - February 22, 2015 at 2:14 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 22, 2015 at 2:35 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 3:28 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by JesusHChrist - February 22, 2015 at 5:24 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 7:32 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 22, 2015 at 8:15 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Thumpalumpacus - February 23, 2015 at 1:11 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 8:57 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by ether-ore - February 22, 2015 at 9:35 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 10:00 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Brakeman - February 23, 2015 at 7:58 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by JesusHChrist - February 23, 2015 at 12:08 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 22, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 22, 2015 at 9:50 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by SteelCurtain - February 22, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by KevinM1 - February 22, 2015 at 10:05 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Cyberman - February 22, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by KevinM1 - February 22, 2015 at 10:20 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Valkyrie - February 22, 2015 at 10:54 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by KevinM1 - February 22, 2015 at 11:03 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Crossless1 - February 23, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by JesusHChrist - February 22, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by KevinM1 - February 23, 2015 at 5:34 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by The Reality Salesman - February 22, 2015 at 11:54 pm
RE: Christian recall notice - by Nope - February 23, 2015 at 8:10 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by rexbeccarox - February 23, 2015 at 1:42 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 23, 2015 at 2:30 am
RE: Christian recall notice - by robvalue - February 23, 2015 at 9:03 am
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