Well, duh!

(February 21, 2015 at 6:19 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote:

(February 21, 2015 at 5:29 pm)ether-ore Wrote: So it is God's judgment call as to what happens to us when we die. It will be well for those who use their agency to repent. For others; not so much.

I will consider this claim from you if you can do one little thing. My Muslim buddy tells me the same thing. He also tells me it's not enough to just repent, he says that I have to repent and submit to his God, Allah. He says that if I invest my afterlife into the wrong God's basket, then I will be screwed for sure. Unfortunately, if he's right, you and I are both screwed. The one little thing I need from you is to prove that Allah is the wrong God to invest my faith into. You seem pretty certain about the authenticity of your God, so, the characteristics of a fraudulent God must be easy for you point out. I don't think this is an unfair request here.

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You get what I'm asking right? If I've got three different propositions for gods coming at me, and each of the three are incompatible with the other, that is to say, if one is right the other two cannot be right. To complicate things, each of the three offers have only one instruction on how to know their God is the right one: to just have faith. Obviously, that's not going to work with all three. Now here's where it gets interesting...

All three people are absolutely sure they're right...

If I owed you $100, and I offered you three different $100 bills to choose from. Could you spot the fake? Probably, and you'd be really good at doing it if you'd devoted your life to studying the characteristics of American currency. Part of what it means to know what something is, is to know what it is not.

So, to someone who has surely devoted some percentage of their life to understanding the nature of their God, how were you able to eliminate Allah from the group? There are far more Muslims in the world who have all been convinced that their God is the authentic $100 bill, but you weren't fooled. So, what was it about the God of Islam that made you know that it was a fake?

The Book of Mormon actually is translated into Arabic and in it, God is called Allah; so it is not the name, it is the message, My claim is that the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price are all one consistent and cohesive message from the time of Moses (who also wrote of things before his time) until now.
Having read the Koran, I personally do not see it as a continuation of the same theme as exists in the Bible even though Muslims claim to honor the prophets of the Bible... it is not the same story at all.

One major difference (at least in LDS theology) is the belief that we are free agents; able to choose our path; and it is this for which we will be judged.

As I understand it, whenever a Muslin attempts anything, it is always "Insha'Allah"... God willing, suggesting that God has already pre-determined everything. To me, this does not square with observation. People in the world make choices all of the time that are actually in spite of God's will. And then there is the method of spreading the message... Jihad. (As LDS, I accept no responsibility for the Crusades (if that were something you were about to bring up.)) Jihad is ongoing, as are honor killings. Consider... would you want to live under Sharia law? Sharia law is the message now and in heaven. I was having a discussion in another area concerning the nature of law whether laws on earth were all subjective (and they are) and whether God's law, being as eternal as He is and which He Himself abides is objective (which it is) God's eternal law is designed that if followed, will yield the greatest happiness. God's law applies equally to all His children and the only thing we need to be concerned about is obedience. Observation would indicate that Sharia law is not equitable, neither does it demonstrate charity (which is a required characteristic for someone who desires to become one with God for the sake of salvation). Salvation requires oneness with God and oneness requires the characteristic of charity. It seems to me that Sharia law is about compulsion, not charity. I hear about merciful Allah, but I don't see it in the practice of Islam. They are much too violent.

The core message of Christianity is that Jesus Christ suffered, died, was buried and rose again on the third day thus paying the penalty demanded by justice for a broken law (which we broke) on condition of repentance, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, the laying on of hands by someone in authority for the gift of the Holy Ghost (who gives inspiration and helps us endure in repentance until the end of our days). Past that, one should be prepared to go to the temple and be sealed to wife and family for time and all eternity. This sealing power... this priesthood is on the earth again today as it was in the days of Peter to whom God gave the power to seal on earth and in heaven. It now resides in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The gospel of Jesus Christ is once again restored to the earth with all the authority and ordinances required for salvation and eternal life.

In LDS theology and doctrine, eternal life is the message.

(February 21, 2015 at 9:51 pm)ether-ore Wrote:

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(February 21, 2015 at 6:19 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: I will consider this claim from you if you can do one little thing. My Muslim buddy tells me the same thing. He also tells me it's not enough to just repent, he says that I have to repent and submit to his God, Allah. He says that if I invest my afterlife into the wrong God's basket, then I will be screwed for sure. Unfortunately, if he's right, you and I are both screwed. The one little thing I need from you is to prove that Allah is the wrong God to invest my faith into. You seem pretty certain about the authenticity of your God, so, the characteristics of a fraudulent God must be easy for you point out. I don't think this is an unfair request here.

---

You get what I'm asking right? If I've got three different propositions for gods coming at me, and each of the three are incompatible with the other, that is to say, if one is right the other two cannot be right. To complicate things, each of the three offers have only one instruction on how to know their God is the right one: to just have faith. Obviously, that's not going to work with all three. Now here's where it gets interesting...

All three people are absolutely sure they're right...

If I owed you $100, and I offered you three different $100 bills to choose from. Could you spot the fake? Probably, and you'd be really good at doing it if you'd devoted your life to studying the characteristics of American currency. Part of what it means to know what something is, is to know what it is not.

So, to someone who has surely devoted some percentage of their life to understanding the nature of their God, how were you able to eliminate Allah from the group? There are far more Muslims in the world who have all been convinced that their God is the authentic $100 bill, but you weren't fooled. So, what was it about the God of Islam that made you know that it was a fake?

The Book of Mormon actually is translated into Arabic and in it, God is called Allah; so it is not the name, it is the message, My claim is that the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price are all one consistent and cohesive message from the time of Moses (who also wrote of things before his time) until now.
Having read the Koran, I personally do not see it as a continuation of the same theme as exists in the Bible even though Muslims claim to honor the prophets of the Bible... it is not the same story at all.

One major difference (at least in LDS theology) is the belief that we are free agents; able to choose our path; and it is this for which we will be judged.

As I understand it, whenever a Muslin attempts anything, it is always "Insha'Allah"... God willing, suggesting that God has already pre-determined everything. To me, this does not square with observation. People in the world make choices all of the time that are actually in spite of God's will. And then there is the method of spreading the message... Jihad. (As LDS, I accept no responsibility for the Crusades (if that were something you were about to bring up.)) Jihad is ongoing, as are honor killings. Consider... would you want to live under Sharia law? Sharia law is the message now and in heaven. I was having a discussion in another area concerning the nature of law whether laws on earth were all subjective (and they are) and whether God's law, being as eternal as He is and which He Himself abides is objective (which it is) God's eternal law is designed that if followed, will yield the greatest happiness. God's law applies equally to all His children and the only thing we need to be concerned about is obedience. Observation would indicate that Sharia law is not equitable, neither does it demonstrate charity (which is a required characteristic for someone who desires to become one with God for the sake of salvation). Salvation requires oneness with God and oneness requires the characteristic of charity. It seems to me that Sharia law is about compulsion, not charity. I hear about merciful Allah, but I don't see it in the practice of Islam. They are much too violent.

The core message of Christianity is that Jesus Christ suffered, died, was buried and rose again on the third day thus paying the penalty demanded by justice for a broken law (which we broke) on condition of repentance, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, the laying on of hands by someone in authority for the gift of the Holy Ghost (who gives inspiration and helps us endure in repentance until the end of our days). Past that, one should be prepared to go to the temple and be sealed to wife and family for time and all eternity. This sealing power... this priesthood is on the earth again today as it was in the days of Peter to whom God gave the power to seal on earth and in heaven. It now resides in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The gospel of Jesus Christ is once again restored to the earth with all the authority and ordinances required for salvation and eternal life.

In LDS theology and doctrine, eternal life is the message.

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