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Photons and determinism, part 2

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Photons and determinism, part 2
bennyboy Offline
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#9
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2
February 24, 2015 at 5:54 am
(February 24, 2015 at 1:46 am)Alex K Wrote: I don't quite understand the OP, how does chaos theory come in?
The idea is that if QM actions are philosophically inderminate (i.e. not just a measurement issue but actually "random") then there would be a non-zero chance for subtle changes a la butterfly effect in fluid motion to shift gravity fields enough to subtly affect the path of the photon, and whether or not it reaches my eye.

My idea is that if time doesn't pass for a photon, then nothing can have affected its path, and that the universe must therefore be truly deterministic.

Quote:Some other thoughts -
in a medium, average propagation speed is reduced to below c by the refractive index. What does that mean for the proper time?
As Surge pointed out, that's not actually the same photon, so I had to throw out the idea of a photon actually passing through a medium.

Quote:I still think going into the reference frame of a photon is not a mathematically valid reference frame change.
Why not?
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Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Photons and determinism, part 2

Messages In This Thread
Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 23, 2015 at 6:44 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 23, 2015 at 7:17 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 23, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 1:47 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 6:19 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 9:31 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 10:53 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 23, 2015 at 8:12 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 23, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 24, 2015 at 12:21 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 1:46 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 5:54 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by ManMachine - February 24, 2015 at 7:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Brian37 - February 24, 2015 at 7:54 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by AFTT47 - February 24, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by ManMachine - February 24, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 6:54 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 8:29 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 24, 2015 at 9:22 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 1:13 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 6:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 25, 2015 at 6:48 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 4:56 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 6:26 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by AFTT47 - February 24, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 24, 2015 at 2:34 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 24, 2015 at 7:06 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 1:35 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Cato - February 25, 2015 at 6:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 7:29 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 7:57 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 7:30 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 10:21 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by LastPoet - February 26, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 26, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 10:27 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 12:10 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 4:52 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 6:48 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 26, 2015 at 6:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 8:07 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 11:18 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 27, 2015 at 3:35 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 27, 2015 at 1:10 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 27, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 27, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 11:00 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 2:33 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 9:00 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 9:08 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Pizza - March 1, 2015 at 9:35 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 10:37 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 11:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 2, 2015 at 1:26 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 2, 2015 at 1:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 2, 2015 at 1:38 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 2, 2015 at 8:57 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 3, 2015 at 12:34 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 26, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Norman Humann - February 26, 2015 at 4:10 pm

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