Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 19, 2025, 2:19 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Photons and determinism, part 2
#23
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2
(February 24, 2015 at 11:40 am)Alex K Wrote:
(February 24, 2015 at 11:34 am)AFTT47 Wrote: I don't get it. As has been pointed out several times, gravity does deflect the path a photon. It has been observed. I believe that was the first test of general relativity. A star was observed close to the sun during a total eclipse and its apparent position was indeed shifted by the sun's gravity well.

As I understand the OP now, the question would then be whether the way in which matter/spacetime deflects the photon isn't also determined from the start because the proper time of the photon is zero.

Yeah, that's the idea.

(February 24, 2015 at 1:33 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Two problems, the photon reference frame in an invalid frame and the number of possible interactions have to be equal independent of the frame.
You say it's invalid because it breaks the math. But that's only when you are trying to "boost" our reference frame to that of something moving at the speed of light, isn't it? But I don't have a problem with that, because the fact that the math is broken is an indicator that something tricky is up with causality.

Quote:Your also making another fallacy where your assuming that because a photon hit your eye it was destined to hit your eye. There are countless photons that are on a trajectory toward your eye right now, so why are you not blinded by them? Answer.
That's not an assumption, that's my conclusion: since the photon has hit my eye, and since in its frame time does not pass, it is not subject to any possible alterations, even from our point of view, and even though wee see the photon to have "travelled" for a thousand light years.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 23, 2015 at 6:44 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 23, 2015 at 7:17 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 23, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 1:47 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 6:19 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 9:31 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 10:53 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 23, 2015 at 8:12 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 23, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 24, 2015 at 12:21 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 1:46 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 5:54 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by ManMachine - February 24, 2015 at 7:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Brian37 - February 24, 2015 at 7:54 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by AFTT47 - February 24, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by ManMachine - February 24, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 6:54 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 8:29 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 24, 2015 at 9:22 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 1:13 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 6:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 25, 2015 at 6:48 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 4:56 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 6:26 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by AFTT47 - February 24, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 24, 2015 at 2:34 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 24, 2015 at 7:06 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 1:35 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Cato - February 25, 2015 at 6:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 7:29 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 7:57 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 7:30 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 10:21 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by LastPoet - February 26, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 26, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 10:27 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 12:10 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 4:52 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 6:48 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 26, 2015 at 6:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 8:07 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 11:18 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 27, 2015 at 3:35 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 27, 2015 at 1:10 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 27, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 27, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 11:00 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 2:33 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 9:00 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 9:08 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Pizza - March 1, 2015 at 9:35 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 10:37 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 11:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 2, 2015 at 1:26 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 2, 2015 at 1:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 2, 2015 at 1:38 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 2, 2015 at 8:57 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 3, 2015 at 12:34 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 26, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Norman Humann - February 26, 2015 at 4:10 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Can you prove a negative, part 2 Fake Messiah 7 1306 May 30, 2025 at 9:41 pm
Last Post: Paleophyte
  Metaethics Part 1: Cognitivism/Non-cognitivism Disagreeable 24 3228 February 11, 2022 at 6:46 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Determinism vs Education Silver 17 2362 October 14, 2021 at 8:10 pm
Last Post: Ranjr
  Is Moral Responsibility Compatible With Determinism? mcc1789 44 8551 June 11, 2019 at 1:34 pm
Last Post: SenseMaker007
  Hybrid theory between freewill and determinism Won2blv 18 5639 July 26, 2017 at 10:57 am
Last Post: Rev. Rye
  The Definitive Post On The Free Will v. Determinism Debate BrianSoddingBoru4 17 4368 September 3, 2016 at 11:20 pm
Last Post: Arkilogue
  Determinism, Free Will and Paradox bennyboy 98 26726 January 20, 2015 at 8:40 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Spirituality part of morality? Mystic 23 5774 July 22, 2014 at 2:24 am
Last Post: ShaMan
  Is Dialogues Part XII Hume's "death bed conversion moment" to theism? Mudhammam 7 2359 June 25, 2014 at 12:19 am
Last Post: Mudhammam
  Soft Determinism, Hard Determinism, Necessitarianism, Fatalism...Huh? Mudhammam 14 7552 January 11, 2014 at 5:33 pm
Last Post: Mudhammam



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)