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Photons and determinism, part 2

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Photons and determinism, part 2
Surgenator Offline
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#82
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2
March 1, 2015 at 10:37 pm (This post was last modified: March 1, 2015 at 10:39 pm by Surgenator.)
(March 1, 2015 at 10:01 pm)bennyboy Wrote:
(March 1, 2015 at 9:31 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Not if I don't want it to. If I know when the photon will arrive at your eye, I can block it before it gets there.
Right. And it was ALWAYS going to hit there, from the time it started its journey a thousand years ago. You just didn't know it yet.
How do you know that some photons didn't hit your eye?

Quote:
Quote:If I were to set all of the universe to a previous state, quantum mechanics states that it is NOT a guarantee the photon will hit your eye. The probability distribution will still be the same, but the observation (the photon hitting your eye) may not be. The photon might hit another particle along the way that it didn't hit the previous time. That is how QM works.
The timelessness of the photon introduces a simultaneity. In at least one frame, that photon's emitter and your eye are brought into relation with each other, and there is no time in which causality can disrupt this. That means with regard to the motion in our timeline, our "observation" (which doesn't exist AFAIK) of the photon is a kind of illusory artifact, as is any interaction we think we've had.

You're forgetting all the particles that are in between the emitter and the receiver. There is nothing preventing the photon from interacting with any of the other particles other than probability.
(March 1, 2015 at 9:35 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote:
(March 1, 2015 at 9:31 pm)Surgenator Wrote:


If I were to set all of the universe to a previous state, quantum mechanics states that it is NOT a guarantee the photon will hit your eye. The probability distribution will still be the same, but the observation (the photon hitting your eye) may not be. The photon might hit another particle along the way that it didn't hit the previous time. That is how QM works.
Doesn't that undermine determinism?

Kinda the point. The wave function (the probability distributions) are deterministic but the observations (what option is taken) is probabilistic.
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Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Photons and determinism, part 2

Messages In This Thread
Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 23, 2015 at 6:44 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 23, 2015 at 7:17 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 23, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 1:47 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 6:19 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 9:31 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 10:53 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 23, 2015 at 8:12 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 23, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 24, 2015 at 12:21 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 1:46 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 5:54 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by ManMachine - February 24, 2015 at 7:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Brian37 - February 24, 2015 at 7:54 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by AFTT47 - February 24, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 24, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by ManMachine - February 24, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 6:54 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 8:29 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 24, 2015 at 9:22 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 24, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 24, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 1:13 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 6:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Alex K - February 25, 2015 at 6:48 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 4:56 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 6:26 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by AFTT47 - February 24, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by vorlon13 - February 24, 2015 at 2:34 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 24, 2015 at 7:06 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 1:35 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Cato - February 25, 2015 at 6:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 7:29 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 7:57 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 25, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 7:30 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 25, 2015 at 10:21 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by LastPoet - February 26, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Mudhammam - February 26, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 25, 2015 at 10:27 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 25, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 12:10 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 4:52 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 6:48 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 26, 2015 at 6:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 8:07 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 26, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 26, 2015 at 11:18 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 27, 2015 at 3:35 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 27, 2015 at 1:10 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - February 27, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - February 27, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 11:00 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 2:33 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 9:00 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 9:08 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Pizza - March 1, 2015 at 9:35 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - March 1, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 1, 2015 at 10:37 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 1, 2015 at 11:45 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 2, 2015 at 1:26 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 2, 2015 at 1:24 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 2, 2015 at 1:38 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by bennyboy - March 2, 2015 at 8:57 pm
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Surgenator - March 3, 2015 at 12:34 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by IATIA - February 26, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: Photons and determinism, part 2 - by Norman Humann - February 26, 2015 at 4:10 pm

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