(August 29, 2010 at 9:29 pm)Disinter Wrote: Yeah you are assuming, and you are assuming that an objective view is truly possible. How are we lead to god when nothing about him is verifiable?*facepalm* Nothing is verifiable unless you accept, acknowledge, and believe in an external objective truth. Acknowledging this, we are lead to wonder just where an external truth would come from, and God is a distinct possibility in that scenario.
Quote:"Grow and progress as human beings"? Is that more spirituality pep talk? Do we feel this progress? How is it verifiable?Yes, yes, and yes to those first three questions. Spirituality always comes into play when we are talking of God, it is unavoidable. The only way of measuring our progress, since objective evidence is that which can be measured, is to have a a perfect model to compare with, such as a fully progressed being or entity, i.e.- a God.
As for 'how is it verifiable?' ...? What do you mean? It is a personal growth and can only be compared to an objective, outside source that has 'completed' its growth...such as a God or God-like being.
Quote:You aren't being very specific....Are you suggesting that a connection with so called god(s) is possible?Uhm...yes. Yes I am. That's called the spirit.
(August 30, 2010 at 9:51 am)Zen Badger Wrote: Objective evidence is evidence that is measurable.If we are limited to our subjective experience, how can we measure anything?
Quote:For instance I can say I have a motorbike, to prove my case I must produce said motorbike.And you must also prove to me that you and the motorbike exist, not just as subjective constructs of my inner mind, but as objective entities within the universe itself.
Quote:Which can then be measured in various ways which we can all agree on i.e weight, size, etc.We can only agree on them if we accept that there is an external truth.
Quote:If I were to say that it is the best bike in the world that would be a very subjective truth.It's more or less just an opinion, but oh well.
Quote:How do you get from here.....If there is an objective, external truth, then it must have a source and must come from some beginning point. As I said above:
Quote:If there exists objective evidence for something, and it can be shown as such quite clearly to the person experiencing it,To here......Quote: then it becomes quite plausible to begin wondering about a God or Gods in relation to this evidence.
Quote:Acknowledging this, we are lead to wonder just where an external truth would come from, and God is a distinct possibility in that scenario.