JW looking for clarity

[Bob Kelso]

Hello all. This is my first post.

Hello! 

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I have been agnostic for about a year now. I am open minded for either belief or non belief in god.

If you don't mind my asking; how long have you been with the JW? Just curious as to whether you grew up into it (as I did in a Southern Baptist home) or if you were converted. If it's the latter, how old were you and what led to your conversion?

I have read a lot on atheist forums and also christian apologetics websites. My favorite is William Lane Craig. I am sure he has some haters here but regardless, he is one of the smartest mind on the theist side. His greatest skill in my mind, is how well he deconstructs bad/faulty arguments of those on the atheist side. But I know that someone can win a debate and still be wrong.

I've found that I can tolerate Craig for a much longer length of time than any other apologist, which isn't saying much, but he's just terrible argumentation wrapped up in verbose bread. 

I just want help from others that might have similar experience with being a strong believer in any faith and then coming to clarity.

 

It took me a long period of introspection and a thorough inspection of Christianity to reach an atheistic viewpoint (Southern Baptist indoctrination will do that to you). So I'm always up for an empathetic talk or two. 

For me, the simple, "show me evidence of god" argument is lacking. I don't believe that a deity that by logic would be a being that transcends space and time as we know it would be easily defined in that space and time.

An all powerful deity should have no issue presenting itself.  

I just struggle the most with the fact that it seems like this universe had a start. And the other part that I struggle with, is that it seems like humanity is on a death spiral. I have read that this is a relatively peaceful time in human history and we have so many advances here and there. But when you look at global warming, nuclear warfare capabilities, worsening poverty issues, etc... it feel like humans will be bring on their own death within the next 100 years or so.

I'm not seeing the need for a deity here, the universe had a beginning and humanity fucks up left and right to the point that we may wipe ourselves out. And? 

Some other things that will have no effect on me...

Bashing JWs- I believe strongly that JW's are great people that do have many faults in the organization and the people but overall it is a group of people that try their best to be good hardworking fellow citizens. And I know  all the history that you can find in 10 seconds on google. I don't believe its a cult and that they use brain washing as a tactic.

 You're welcome to your interpretation of your group, just don't expect anyone on the outside to agree. The JWs I've dealt with have all been door to door salesmen, and those interactions weren't pleasant even when I made the attempt to be nice, and the way they treat the excommunicated is just downright shameful. 

God's immorality in the bible - I know this is a favorite of many atheist. I remember Matt from the atheist experience podcast once saying that he is more moral than god because of the things that god condoned in the bible. First of all, if you can be a MORE moral person that implies a moral BEST. If there is a moral best, then that implies absolute morals.

Not necessarily, even in a subjective morality there are gradients. 

And second of all, Matt's point was that even if there was a god he would be proud that he didn't serve him in any way. But then he would kind of be proving the bibles point that men fell away because they thought they knew better... Also, I don't believe that the bible reflects gods ideal condition. I don't believe the mosaic law was a perfect law. But I do believe that it could be argued that the mosaic law was the best possible law for an imperfect system.

You can believe whatever you like, but I would expect far better results from a deity that claims perfection.   

"Matter cannot be created or destroyed" - Arguments like this are a laymans understanding of physical laws. I am a layman so I try not to get into such arguments. But I know that if it was such a good argument. then more atheist in the public world would employ it more often. From my lay understanding, some physical laws were not set until some time after the universe came into existence. 

Please also feel free to ask any questions about what Jehovah's witnesses believe. Thanks!

Thanks for posting!