RE: JW looking clarity followup
April 17, 2015 at 12:13 pm
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2015 at 12:24 pm by Simon Moon.)
(April 17, 2015 at 10:21 am)nicanica123 Wrote: Thanks for all the replies on the other thread I started. One poster recommended that maybe I start with just 1 point and go from there. The following is what rattles through my brain. Please remember that I'm not debating I'm sharing my thoughts...
The argument against god that there is no proof
My few thoughts on this are as follows, 1. Why would this almighty god be subjected to what a human demands as proof?
Depends on what the attributes that this god is alleged to have.
If this god does not care about humanity knowing about his existence, then it wouldn't be subjected to our demands of proof.
But if this god does want us to know about its existence, then it shouldn't be surprised when the critical thinkers and skeptical among its creation come to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence and reasoned argument to justify belief. And if it punishes disbelievers in any way, then it is being immoral for not supplying sufficient evidence.
Quote:2. Does gods creation not make him apparent?
This short question is loaded with fallacies.
It can be rewritten as a logical syllogism as:
Premise 1: god created the universe
Conclusion: Therefore, the universe is evidence of god's existence.
It is circular. What you are asking is, "Doesn't the universe that was created by god, prove that god exists?".
It affirms the consequent. The conclusion is that the universe is evidence for the existence of a god, but the premise contains the conclusion.
It begs the question. The premise requires evidence. Without providing evidence and reasoned argument to support the claim that god exists and that it is responsible for creating the universe, it can be dismissed as an completely unsupported assertion.
You can't point at the universe and claim that a god is responsible without supporting that claim with demonstrable evidence and valid/sound logic.
Not to mention, that there is no evidence that there was a creation. All evidence points to natural processes.
Quote:3. If god popped up one day to make himself readily known as existing, would all people serve him any way?
Probably not. Especially if any of the known religious holy books are accurate depictions of god's actions and behavior.
In my opinion, the worst possible reality would be the one where the Abrahamic god existed. Here is a god that condoned slavery, had his chosen people wipe out entire cities (men, women, animals) but keep the virgin girls for themselves, wiped out the entire population of the earth except a 900 year old drunk and his family, etc. Then, after one mistake after another, he impregnates a 14 year old girl, so he can sacrifice himself to himself as a loophole for the rules he created.
Quote:4. If gods purpose as I have been taught, is that one day the earth will be a paradise like state with no evil. Back to its original Eden conditions. Proving that Satan, Adam, and Eve were wrong to reject gods sovereignty and humans are not capable of ruling themselves... how would it serve his purpose if people worshipped him out of fear of him killing them rather than from their hearts?
What justification do you have to believe any of that?
Why would a perfect. omniscient being, create imperfect beings? Why would he create Satan, knowing that he would cause his creation all sorts of problems? Why would a perfect being need to be worshiped? The list of absurdities of the Bible story is almost endless.
I am constantly shocked that so many people believe such an absurd, immoral story in the 21st century.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
