Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 16, 2024, 4:19 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
JW looking clarity followup
RE: JW looking clarity followup
nicanica123 Wrote:It just doesn't make sense to me that someone could be df'd for only holding a view without discussing it.
It doesn't make sense to me either, yet the organization sent a letter with that instruction to congregations in 1980.  Like I said, it really just smacks of an attempt at targeting a single person via policy changes.  That is pretty scary behavior, IMO.
nicanica123 Wrote:We're you a witness then? If so, as an atheist this point is moot but, if jw's serve Jehovah then they can trust in him to set matters straight.
I was raised a JW, and lived it for about 30 years before falling away from it and eventually realizing I did not believe in god.  I understand the view about trusting Jehovah to set matters straight, but it's the sort of view that can be used to excuse dangerous behavior like that I described above.

The Watchtower leadership claims that it is guided by god's holy spirit, but that the governing body is composed of fallible and imperfect human beings.   This allows them to demand that you accept their interpretations, explanations, and advice as god-given, but that you hold them blameless when they get things wrong.  To me that sounds like a lot of cult leaders that we have heard about over the years.

As for what the Bible teaches: the Bible is a poorly-assembled collection of old teachings, fables, stories, and letters selected from a much larger trove of such.  The many different interpretations and the many disagreements on various matters and subjects show just how easy it is to interpret it in an almost endless variety of ways.  Go through your Reasoning with the Scriptures book and you will note that for nearly every subject the explanation consists mostly (or entirely) of numerous out-of-context chapter/verse selections with short explanations.  But that isn't what should concern a JW.

Charles Russell originally had the belief that Jesus had begun his invisible reign in 1874 and that the war of Armageddon would be over and done by the autumn of 1914.  When this did not happen, he and Rutherford (his successor) offered up several other dates, until being constantly wrong led to massive defections in the mid-1920s.  Yet today you won't hear about that.  You will hear that from the start, Russell taught that 1914 was the beginning of the end times.  But that's completely false.  They have clung to the 1914 date because it was coincidentally when World War I started, and they could re-work the "prophecy" into something that appears to be divine.  That's a deliberate attempt to mislead: they are lying to the membership.

The issue of the date of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians is tied to this deception, because they use the date of 607BC to get to 1914AD via "Bible chronology." If the actual date is different (and it is) then the basis for their end-times prophecy is wrong.  Their revised history of Russell's end-time predictions becomes useless and their "chronology" is thrown into disarray.  So they insist on the 607BC date, not because it is correct, but because they are using one lie to carry another lie.

Maybe those apostates you know are miserable because they haven't been able to get over how thoroughly they were deceived?  I don't know.  I've always been a happy person, and leaving the organization did not change that for me.  I certainly can't imagine that I'd feel worse after cutting the ties to an organization like that.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
Reply



Messages In This Thread
JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 17, 2015 at 10:21 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Quatermass - April 17, 2015 at 10:36 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by henryp - April 17, 2015 at 11:37 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 17, 2015 at 11:38 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Surgenator - April 17, 2015 at 11:44 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 17, 2015 at 6:36 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Simon Moon - April 17, 2015 at 6:58 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 17, 2015 at 7:05 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Faith No More - April 17, 2015 at 11:49 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 17, 2015 at 11:52 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Tonus - April 17, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 17, 2015 at 12:03 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Simon Moon - April 17, 2015 at 12:13 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Minimalist - April 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Alex K - April 17, 2015 at 12:59 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Faith No More - April 17, 2015 at 2:35 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Thumpalumpacus - April 17, 2015 at 1:03 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 17, 2015 at 1:05 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Ravenshire - April 17, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by watchamadoodle - April 17, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by MysticKnight - April 17, 2015 at 1:58 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Minimalist - April 17, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Exian - April 17, 2015 at 2:32 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Goon - April 17, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Mudhammam - April 17, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by rexbeccarox - April 17, 2015 at 2:22 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Surgenator - April 17, 2015 at 5:44 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Alex K - April 17, 2015 at 3:53 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Faith No More - April 17, 2015 at 4:42 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Mudhammam - April 17, 2015 at 4:48 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Faith No More - April 17, 2015 at 6:41 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 17, 2015 at 6:56 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Simon Moon - April 17, 2015 at 7:18 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by rexbeccarox - April 17, 2015 at 7:18 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 17, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by KevinM1 - April 17, 2015 at 9:08 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 18, 2015 at 12:12 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by KevinM1 - April 18, 2015 at 1:07 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Ravenshire - April 18, 2015 at 3:15 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by KevinM1 - April 18, 2015 at 3:17 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by downbeatplumb - April 18, 2015 at 3:50 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Tonus - April 18, 2015 at 7:27 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 18, 2015 at 6:13 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Esquilax - April 18, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 19, 2015 at 3:36 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 19, 2015 at 10:46 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 20, 2015 at 12:26 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Tonus - April 20, 2015 at 8:53 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Alex K - April 17, 2015 at 7:04 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Alex K - April 17, 2015 at 7:08 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 17, 2015 at 7:12 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Cyberman - April 17, 2015 at 7:13 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by abaris - April 17, 2015 at 7:27 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Cyberman - April 17, 2015 at 8:35 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Mudhammam - April 18, 2015 at 1:11 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 18, 2015 at 3:30 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 18, 2015 at 3:35 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 18, 2015 at 4:00 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by TubbyTubby - April 18, 2015 at 5:17 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Esquilax - April 18, 2015 at 2:34 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 18, 2015 at 2:57 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Cyberman - April 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by rexbeccarox - April 18, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 18, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by rexbeccarox - April 18, 2015 at 3:08 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 18, 2015 at 3:10 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by rexbeccarox - April 18, 2015 at 3:11 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Ravenshire - April 18, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Minimalist - April 18, 2015 at 3:13 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 18, 2015 at 3:16 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by downbeatplumb - April 19, 2015 at 3:44 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by rexbeccarox - April 18, 2015 at 3:23 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by LastPoet - April 18, 2015 at 6:29 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Tonus - April 18, 2015 at 9:57 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 18, 2015 at 10:53 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 3:45 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 19, 2015 at 3:58 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by KevinM1 - April 24, 2015 at 2:09 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Tonus - April 19, 2015 at 6:44 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by pocaracas - April 19, 2015 at 11:17 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 12:04 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Brakeman - April 19, 2015 at 12:07 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 20, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 20, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 12:10 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 20, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 23, 2015 at 11:11 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by rexbeccarox - April 23, 2015 at 11:30 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 24, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by rexbeccarox - April 25, 2015 at 1:39 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 24, 2015 at 5:54 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 24, 2015 at 11:52 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 25, 2015 at 11:19 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 25, 2015 at 10:42 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by bennyboy - April 20, 2015 at 9:43 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 20, 2015 at 9:56 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Tonus - April 21, 2015 at 10:01 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 24, 2015 at 2:39 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 25, 2015 at 1:32 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Tonus - April 24, 2015 at 9:24 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 25, 2015 at 1:49 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Bad Wolf - April 24, 2015 at 8:01 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by robvalue - April 25, 2015 at 2:25 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 25, 2015 at 11:08 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Foxaèr - April 25, 2015 at 2:31 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Tonus - April 25, 2015 at 7:03 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 25, 2015 at 11:18 pm
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Won2blv - April 26, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: JW looking clarity followup - by Aractus - April 27, 2015 at 12:43 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Looking for comments / ideas for WIP project ABCs of Atheism Judashpeters 18 4675 April 9, 2018 at 2:22 pm
Last Post: Judashpeters
  Atheism Looking Good! TrueChristian 52 7637 February 15, 2016 at 8:13 pm
Last Post: God of Mr. Hanky
  christian looking to understand athiests msid 212 35595 August 21, 2015 at 10:38 am
Last Post: Mr Greene
  JW looking for clarity Won2blv 44 7370 April 19, 2015 at 8:08 am
Last Post: pocaracas
  Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion GriffinHunter 216 32733 March 26, 2015 at 6:03 am
Last Post: The Reality Salesman01
  atheist looking for advice jackriot100 56 10112 February 15, 2015 at 5:02 am
Last Post: emilynghiem
  Looking for religion-free charities watchamadoodle 7 2264 December 6, 2014 at 2:37 pm
Last Post: Fidel_Castronaut
  'Coming out' Atheism documentary is looking for interviewee's GrayTitan 0 973 September 10, 2014 at 8:22 pm
Last Post: GrayTitan
Tongue Looking for a word to describe someone who is not a theist. Ideas? Whateverist 18 8371 November 27, 2013 at 8:06 pm
Last Post: Whateverist
  Looking for logic. Ring0 16 4935 November 11, 2013 at 10:42 am
Last Post: Doubting Thomas



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)