Ask a Catholic

[Huggy Bear]

I have already shown examples of two TYPES of baptism: John's Baptism, and Christian Trinitarian Baptism.

And I've shown why John's baptism was no longer valid and those baptized under John's baptism had to be re-baptized.

There is no trinity, Jesus Christ IS the Father, Son and Holy Spirit....

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Not to mention, Peter was a Jew who kept the law. Jews don't believe in a trinity, they believe in one God only!

Are you an atheist or a JW?

Niether

The New Testament talks about people being baptized "in the name of Jesus," but there are only four such passages (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, and 19:5). Further, these passages do not use the same designation in each place (some say "Lord Jesus," other say "Jesus Christ"), indicating that they were not technical formulas used in the baptism but simply descriptions by Luke.

You have yet to provide one scripture where anyone was baptized using the trinitarian formula.

These four descriptions are not to be considered as a substitute for or contradiction of the divine command of the Lord Jesus Christ to: "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19).

They don't contradict. Are you a father? If so, is that your name?

I ask once again, what is the NAME of Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?

The Word of God.

No, huggy. It is the Church.

1 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

1 Timothy 3:15 (NIV)
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Your original question

What is the pillar and ground of the faith for the believer in Christ Jesus, huggy?

(emphasis mine)
The scripture you quoted is referring to the TRUTH not FAITH(unless you are saying the two are synonymous...), and faith only comes by hearing the Word of God

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And without faith, it is impossible to please God.

Is not Jesus the Word of God made flesh? Without the Word of God the church doesn't exist

The pillar and ground, foundation and bulwark of the truth is the Church built by Jesus. And to Peter, the rock upon which that Church was built, Jesus conveyed awesome authority:

Matthew 16:18-19 New International Version (NIV)
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

By the authority granted to it by Jesus Christ and in response to His command, the Catholic Church makes disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

(The following is taken from one of my earlier posts (http://atheistforums.org/thread-32888-po...#pid929806) explaining the above scripture)

That scripture isn't in its full context. Jesus isn't talking about building his church on Peter (whom he rebuked later in that same chapter btw) but upon "revelation". If Peter was such a "rock" why did he deny Jesus 3 times?

If you look at the scripture in it's full context, then the meaning is clear.

Matthew 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven (has revealed it).
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock (speaking of revelation) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

(*the parts in parentheses are my edits)

Five verses down in the same chapter, Jesus rebukes Peter (well, Satan actually, who was acting through Peter).

Matthew 16
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Clearly Jesus wasn't speaking of building his church on Peter but upon revelation.

Receiving a revelation Is essentially like having an epiphany, something that was hidden is made suddenly clear. You cannot begin to understand the Bible with out having revelation (hence why it's the foundation of the church).

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

An example of revelation would be in Acts 2:38 when Peter commanded the people to be baptized in the "name of Jesus Christ"

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Why would Peter contradict Jesus when Jesus clearly stated to baptize in the "name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost"?

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Because Peter, having a "revelation" of who Jesus Christ was, Knew that Jesus WAS the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, he was all of it.

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

The Catholic church does not have this revelation, they literally baptize in the "name of the father, son and holy ghost" of which, none are names but titles, the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ.