(May 24, 2015 at 11:33 pm)Anima Wrote:(May 24, 2015 at 9:15 pm)Aroura Wrote: You completely avoided my point about how Jesus did not even approve of the suffering of those who "deserved" it; and generally, the more aware we become of why people behave the way they do and why the world works the way it does the LESS tolerant of others suffering we become.
Why would it make any sense at all that divine 'enlightenment" would cause us to think people DESERVE suffering? Everything we know about reality point to that actually working the other way.
I know, you can't wrap your head around It because of Hell. This is a great example of how religion harms. You are clearly a nice, understanding and generally non-judgmental person, and you are looking forward to how god will turn you into a judgmental asshole just like him.
I'm not even sure how to further respond to your line of reasoning, it's so disgusting to me, repulsive. That you embrace it just baffles me.
Jesus did not approve of the suffering of those who deserved it? I have to assume you are talking about the parts where the sinner in question repents or is forgiven. I am sure if you look you will find sufficient references where Jesus stipulates those who choose to engage in wrongful conduct and do not repent shall receive what they deserve (which naturally is going to be awesomeness!!)
I am having a hard time understand the animosity. I endeavored to answer this question in reasonable terms and even made the equation of hell to prison to try to avoid unwarranted hatred against religious comments. The question asked was if God sent your child to hell (which I equated to the state putting your child in prison or executing them). In either question the child chose to engage in action of sufficient wrongness or illegality as to warrant their condemnation or execution.
Am i supposed to say I refuse to believe in a god who allows one person in hell, no matter how horrible their chosen conduct? That I will not live in a state that puts a single person in prison, no matter how many laws they break or people they hurt? That I should suffer guilt for the punishment of one who chose to engage in vicious and illicit conduct of a nature so bad as to be imprisoned or executed?
I do not think any reasonable person, theist or atheist, would agree with that. And if they do they have my utmost sympathies to be constantly wracked with guilt and bad feelings about the bad things that other people do (that is beyond your control) must be a never ending torment. To quote Brian Griffin:
"Stewie, it's not your fault....Stewie; it's not your fault....NO! Stewie... It's not your fault."
This is one reason I reject the notion of free-will (aside from evidence pointing to it's lack of existence!), it leads to this kind of barbaric blaming nonsense. No, a person doesn't chose to be bad. A person is born into bad circumstance, or born with genetic damage that causes their bad behavior, or both.
If God will condemn a person to eternal damnation who is born with a mental illness not under their control, or condemn a person born into poverty who's only role models are gang member, and then rewards a person with eternal happiness for being born into privilege and good genetics, AND that god created all those conditions in the first place, that god is a monster.
Remember how many Christians started accepting homosexuality more once science proved it wasn't a choice? "Choice" aka - freewill is the loophole Christians use for their twisted moral code. And there is...no...such..thing. Not in the libertarian way you keep using the term, anyway.
I didn't chose to be an atheist, it just happened to me through a process of exposure to information and events I had no control over.
Where are your monstrous beliefs going to hide when we find that is the case for pretty much everything? Choice. Ha!
I CANNOT chose to force myself to believe in a god I find illogical and highly improbably to exist. I know, I tried. If a god exists and he condemns me to hell for that...he's a monster. Period. You don't know how many atheists suffered trying so hard to believe, but they couldn't.
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead