If God sent your child to Hell.

[Aroura]

This is one reason I reject the notion of free-will (aside from evidence pointing to it's lack of existence!), it leads to this kind of barbaric blaming nonsense.  No, a person doesn't chose to be bad.  A person is born into bad circumstance, or born with genetic damage that causes their bad behavior, or both. 

If God will condemn a person to eternal damnation who is born with a mental illness not under their control, or condemn a person born into poverty who's only role models are gang member, and then rewards a person with eternal happiness for being born into privilege and good genetics, AND that god created all those conditions in the first place, that god is a monster.

Remember how many Christians started accepting homosexuality more once science proved it wasn't a choice?  "Choice" aka - freewill is the loophole Christians use for their twisted moral code. And there is...no...such..thing.  Not in the libertarian way you keep using the term, anyway.
I didn't chose to be an atheist, it just happened to me through a process of exposure to information and events I had no control over. 

Where are your monstrous beliefs going to hide when we find that is the case for pretty much everything?  Choice.  Ha!

 I CANNOT chose to force myself to believe in a god I find illogical and highly improbably to exist.  I know, I tried.  If a god exists and he condemns me to hell for that...he's a monster.  Period.  You don't know how many atheists suffered trying so hard to believe, but they couldn't.

Okay.  Before I rip this to pieces (and possibly further unbalance this gent) I am going to need to know if more of you contend you have no choice or freewill?  If you do not then I will consider this one an outlier and move on.  If you do I will respond despondently.

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Prison is mainly used as a way of keeping people away from society who are a danger to it.

"Hell" is something that happens to you after you die supposedly. No one needs protecting from you anymore, you dead son. So in this analogy, it would be like re animating the corpse and making it live forever in a prison as vengeance. A prison made just for this purpose. Optionally torturing it as well, depending on which version people believe in.

So it's really not a very good comparison. Prison isn't primarily concerned with seeking vengeance. If a murderer dies before being convicted, we don't stomp on his corpse for all eternity as payback.

So Bernie Madoff is serving multiple life sentences because he is a danger to society?  Hmm...?

What do you mean by no one.  There are innocent people then to.  They should not be subjected to the guilty.

First, I'm a lady, not a gent.
Second, before you consider me an outlier, why don't you create a poll here that asks who does believe in free-will?  There are generally 3 options, though people may believe some variation of the 3.
Libertarian Free will
Compatabilist Free-will
Determinist, no free will

My guess would be you would get every so slightly more compatabalists, but still about 40% or so will be determinists here, just like me.  Only the other Christians MIGHT believe in Libertarian free will, though most educated ones will still pick compatibilism, because the Libertarian kind isn't really possible, according to modern thought.

Actually I'm curios myself, so I'll do it (and shock the socks off of you!)  haha.

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This is one reason I reject the notion of free-will (aside from evidence pointing to it's lack of existence!), it leads to this kind of barbaric blaming nonsense.  No, a person doesn't chose to be bad.  A person is born into bad circumstance, or born with genetic damage that causes their bad behavior, or both. 

If God will condemn a person to eternal damnation who is born with a mental illness not under their control, or condemn a person born into poverty who's only role models are gang member, and then rewards a person with eternal happiness for being born into privilege and good genetics, AND that god created all those conditions in the first place, that god is a monster.

Remember how many Christians started accepting homosexuality more once science proved it wasn't a choice?  "Choice" aka - freewill is the loophole Christians use for their twisted moral code. And there is...no...such..thing.  Not in the libertarian way you keep using the term, anyway.
I didn't chose to be an atheist, it just happened to me through a process of exposure to information and events I had no control over. 

Where are your monstrous beliefs going to hide when we find that is the case for pretty much everything?  Choice.  Ha!

 I CANNOT chose to force myself to believe in a god I find illogical and highly improbably to exist.  I know, I tried.  If a god exists and he condemns me to hell for that...he's a monster.  Period.  You don't know how many atheists suffered trying so hard to believe, but they couldn't.

Okay.  Before I rip this to pieces (and possibly further unbalance this gent) I am going to need to know if more of you contend you have no choice or freewill?  If you do not then I will consider this one an outlier and move on.  If you do I will respond despondently.

---

Prison is mainly used as a way of keeping people away from society who are a danger to it.

"Hell" is something that happens to you after you die supposedly. No one needs protecting from you anymore, you dead son. So in this analogy, it would be like re animating the corpse and making it live forever in a prison as vengeance. A prison made just for this purpose. Optionally torturing it as well, depending on which version people believe in.

So it's really not a very good comparison. Prison isn't primarily concerned with seeking vengeance. If a murderer dies before being convicted, we don't stomp on his corpse for all eternity as payback.

So Bernie Madoff is serving multiple life sentences because he is a danger to society?  Hmm...?

What do you mean by no one.  There are innocent people then to.  They should not be subjected to the guilty.

But in case my poll doesn't get off the ground (and please, feel free to "Rip me to shreds", I'm all ears), here is a thread where you can see members of this forum debate the existence of, and importance of the existence of, free-will.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-32710.ht...eterminism

My point here being, belief in determinism is not an outlier, it is quite common.  Belief in Libertarian Free-will is, however the outlier now-a-days.  Compatibilism is the most common belief, I think, and they do not believe in Free will as you seem to be using it.
In any case, there is nothing  unbalanced about it.

So yes, please, rip determinism to shreds.  I've read dozens of papers and watched lectures from neurobiologists, PhD philosophers and other experts, but I'm sure your argument will just bury everything they had to say.

I'm waiting....