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The right to mis-define oneself
#32
RE: The right to mis-define oneself
(June 13, 2015 at 4:08 am)Neimenovic Wrote:
(June 13, 2015 at 1:58 am)wallym Wrote: I'm definitely in the skeptical party that feels like we're being mandated to play pretend.  Bruce Jenner, for example, wants us to call him a her named Caitlyn.  Sure, whatever.  I don't give a shit.  But us all pretending he's a woman doesn't make him a woman in my mind.  

Except psychologically, Caitlyn/Bruce is a woman


The thing is, psychology is not how the sexes are traditionally defined:

Quote:man
noun (plural men /mɛn/)
1An adult human male:a small man with mischievous eyesthe men’s semi-finals


http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all


Quote:woman
noun (plural women /ˈwɪmɪn/)
1An adult human female:jury of seven women and five men[AS MODIFIER]: a woman doctor

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all


Quote:male 1
adjective
1Of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring:male children

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all


Quote:female
adjective
1Of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggsdistinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilizedby male gametes:herd of female deer

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all


Notice, there is nothing whatsoever about the thinking processes that are relevant to the definitions of the terms.  It is only if you redefine the terms that psychology is in any way relevant to who or what is male or female.  Indeed, the entire brain is irrelevant to the standard definitions of the terms.

If you think about it, it would be strange if psychology or the brain were relevant to the definitions of the terms, since that is not how one typically identifies the sexes in ordinary life.  One normally distinguishes between them by their observable physical features.


(June 13, 2015 at 4:08 am)Neimenovic Wrote: ...
Transgender people are not a good example for this discussion, because they are not mis-identifying themselves, quite to the contrary actually

That depends entirely on the definitions of the terms that one is using.  Using the traditional definitions, they are misidentifying themselves.  That is why many people have said that transgender people are misidentifying themselves.


None of the above is to be understood as suggesting that people should not be allowed to alter themselves as they see fit.  Nor is it to suggest that people so altered should not be allowed to legally change what they are considered to be.  It is to explain why it is that many people say that a transgendered person is really the anatomical sex with which they are born, as that is the traditional way the terms are defined.

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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Messages In This Thread
The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 12, 2015 at 11:16 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by VeggieDog - June 12, 2015 at 11:30 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 12:05 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Lemonvariable72 - June 13, 2015 at 12:47 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 13, 2015 at 1:58 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 4:08 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 5:21 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 5:34 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Pyrrho - June 13, 2015 at 12:27 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 13, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Anomalocaris - June 13, 2015 at 4:13 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 4:33 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 5:22 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 5:38 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 5:36 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 13, 2015 at 5:42 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 8:59 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Ravenshire - June 13, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Pyrrho - June 14, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:15 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 14, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:22 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 15, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 13, 2015 at 5:27 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by comet - June 13, 2015 at 7:34 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Dystopia - June 13, 2015 at 7:36 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 8:57 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Iroscato - June 13, 2015 at 9:08 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:08 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 11:55 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 12:13 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 8:21 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Cato - June 13, 2015 at 8:45 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 12:02 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 12:14 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 3:29 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 4:23 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 4:53 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 1:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Cato - June 14, 2015 at 10:56 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 5:53 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 6:00 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 6:10 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:20 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 6:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 7:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 9:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 15, 2015 at 1:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 9:29 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 15, 2015 at 12:21 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 4:05 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 17, 2015 at 1:03 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 14, 2015 at 6:36 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Nope - June 13, 2015 at 10:41 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:51 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 13, 2015 at 10:55 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 3:34 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 4:29 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 4:37 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 14, 2015 at 11:15 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 11:20 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 14, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:00 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 12:54 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 15, 2015 at 4:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 5:07 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 7:00 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 7:02 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 1:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Nope - June 13, 2015 at 10:34 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 13, 2015 at 10:45 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 12:09 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 3:25 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 4:20 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Dystopia - June 16, 2015 at 6:54 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 1:52 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Dystopia - June 16, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 2:16 pm
The right to mis-define oneself - by KUSA - June 13, 2015 at 10:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 13, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 13, 2015 at 11:42 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 13, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 12:18 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 12:23 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 12:52 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 1:36 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 1:41 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 4:19 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by rexbeccarox - June 14, 2015 at 6:10 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:52 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 6:17 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 14, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Bad Wolf - June 14, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 2:24 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Bad Wolf - June 14, 2015 at 2:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Bad Wolf - June 14, 2015 at 3:15 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:10 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Cato - June 14, 2015 at 5:56 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 6:53 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 7:20 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 7:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 7:46 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 7:55 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 8:05 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 15, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 6:39 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 8:32 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 8:39 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 10:04 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by rexbeccarox - June 14, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 10:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 10:46 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 10:57 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 10:53 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 10:58 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 15, 2015 at 1:33 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 11:08 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 11:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 15, 2015 at 12:30 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 12:48 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 12:49 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 15, 2015 at 1:43 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 15, 2015 at 9:54 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 15, 2015 at 1:35 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 15, 2015 at 2:17 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 4:25 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 4:40 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 2:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Dystopia - June 16, 2015 at 6:55 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 16, 2015 at 7:00 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 16, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 16, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 2:49 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 3:13 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 11:04 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 17, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 11:21 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by rexbeccarox - June 16, 2015 at 11:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 17, 2015 at 12:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by rexbeccarox - June 17, 2015 at 12:59 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 17, 2015 at 8:37 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 17, 2015 at 8:40 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 17, 2015 at 10:46 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 17, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 8:50 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 19, 2015 at 10:12 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 19, 2015 at 10:26 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 19, 2015 at 7:36 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 19, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 19, 2015 at 8:05 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 19, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 19, 2015 at 10:32 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 10:37 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 19, 2015 at 11:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 20, 2015 at 6:07 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 11:16 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 20, 2015 at 6:09 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 20, 2015 at 6:13 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 12:29 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 20, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 11:23 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 20, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2015 at 11:21 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:34 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:37 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:38 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:45 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2015 at 11:40 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 22, 2015 at 12:21 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2015 at 12:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 22, 2015 at 2:39 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 22, 2015 at 1:58 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 22, 2015 at 8:56 am

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