RE: Stump the Christian?
June 15, 2015 at 3:29 am
(This post was last modified: June 15, 2015 at 3:51 am by robvalue.)
In god's own stories about himself, in his first book, he walked around on Earth, fully visible and talked to people. So let's pretend that actually happened for a minute.
If he did it once, he could do it again. So why doesn't he?
1) He can't. He has expired, or no longer has the power to do so.
2) He won't. Maybe he has lost interest in us. Maybe he wants to see which of us use the critical thinking skills he gave us, knowing there is insufficient evidence. Or maybe he enjoys the confusion, the suffering, the exploitation and even the killing that his absence is causing. Maybe he thinks we don't deserve to see him anymore.
Either way, he certainly doesn't want us to know he exists, assuming that 2 is the explanation. He could just come down and walk around, and we wouldn't be able to deny his existence.
Objections?
1) This violates our free will!
Does he want us to believe in him or not? Yes, we would believe in him. It doesn't mean we would worship him. He also has no problem screwing with free will in the past, at several points in his own stories. So he must want us to believe based on insufficient evidence, in other words for irrational reasons, rather than a proper reason like him actually showing up? Well that is dumb. He is favouring the gullible. Why?
2) Why should he do that?
Well, because he wants us to believe and have a relationship with him. He's creating a barrier by not doing it. If he's too arrogant now or enjoys this stupid guessing game, then he is a dick. Too bad.
3) People still wouldn't believe
I think people would in general believe what they could actually experience, and crucially verify with everyone else on a daily basis. Not just people who previously believed, but everyone, including now former atheists.
3) God didn't really walk around on the Earth
Well, I agree. The idea that he did is ludicrous. So either God doesn't exist, or his story is unreliable even in the first book, so should be ignored as deliberately bogus.
If he did it once, he could do it again. So why doesn't he?
1) He can't. He has expired, or no longer has the power to do so.
2) He won't. Maybe he has lost interest in us. Maybe he wants to see which of us use the critical thinking skills he gave us, knowing there is insufficient evidence. Or maybe he enjoys the confusion, the suffering, the exploitation and even the killing that his absence is causing. Maybe he thinks we don't deserve to see him anymore.
Either way, he certainly doesn't want us to know he exists, assuming that 2 is the explanation. He could just come down and walk around, and we wouldn't be able to deny his existence.
Objections?
1) This violates our free will!
Does he want us to believe in him or not? Yes, we would believe in him. It doesn't mean we would worship him. He also has no problem screwing with free will in the past, at several points in his own stories. So he must want us to believe based on insufficient evidence, in other words for irrational reasons, rather than a proper reason like him actually showing up? Well that is dumb. He is favouring the gullible. Why?
2) Why should he do that?
Well, because he wants us to believe and have a relationship with him. He's creating a barrier by not doing it. If he's too arrogant now or enjoys this stupid guessing game, then he is a dick. Too bad.
3) People still wouldn't believe
I think people would in general believe what they could actually experience, and crucially verify with everyone else on a daily basis. Not just people who previously believed, but everyone, including now former atheists.
3) God didn't really walk around on the Earth
Well, I agree. The idea that he did is ludicrous. So either God doesn't exist, or his story is unreliable even in the first book, so should be ignored as deliberately bogus.
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Index of useful threads and discussions
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Quickstart guide to the forum