(June 28, 2015 at 12:14 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:(June 28, 2015 at 11:58 am)Randy Carson Wrote: If there were no heaven and no hell, then what would be the purpose of paying any attention to God at all? What you're proposing is that there would be no consequences for ANY of our decisions (beyond our valuation of their effects on others). You would be completely free to do whatever you want (according to the dictates of your own conscience), because in the end, it all comes to nothing anyway. So, sure...ignore God...He's irrelevant.
But that's NOT this situation in which we find ourselves. (It is the situation you believe to be the case, but that is a problem owing to your lack of faith.) We have been shown the alternatives (heaven & hell) as well as the loving nature of a God with whom we may have a personal relationship. God is love, He loves us, and He is lovable. Choosing to do what God wants because we love Him and desire to be with Him for eternity makes sense in that context.
However, there have been many saints whose experience of God's love was SO profound that they were able to say they would willingly endure the pains of hell for eternity if that was what God wanted.
I can honestly say that I'm not at that level.
Again your doing what gods want because you want love in heaven and not hell, if he was offering neither you would not be willing to submit to him, so it boils down to what makes you happy. You think your options are profound love in heaven or eternal torture in hell, your not picking heaven because you love god, your picking heaven because its preferable to hell.
There are two levels:
Level 1: Fear of hell/desire for heaven.
Of course we fear hell and desire heaven. That is the only sane response if heaven and hell are real.
Level 2: Love of God.
We desire to do whatever pleases God purely out of love for Him. This level is not concerned with self (heaven and hell).
Level 1 is less mature; level 2 is more mature. Similarly, our love for a spouse can be more or less mature.
Quote:Also the fact that you think an entity is showing you profound love by giving you a choice between eternal worship or eternal torture, tells me you don't care who this entity is and your really only concerned with where your ass ends up.
Not exactly. God has shown profound love for me by dying on a cross which makes it possible for me to choose.
