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Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven?
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven?
(July 11, 2015 at 12:57 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Why?
I have two choices: I can give a dollar to a homeless person (a small good) or I can sell all my possessions, give the money to the poor, and join him (a greater good)? How have I done evil by choosing to do the small good rather than the greater good?

No, Jesus spoke of us being rewarded to varying degrees, so one who does the small good will get a smaller reward...but a reward nonetheless.

You were simply wrong on this point.
Because in this life you can choose to be selfish, which is exactly what not giving up all your possessions to feed the poor is. Well it's true, the likes of Benedict XVI and Cardinal Burke have been slagged off mercilessly (although fairly particularly with the later, one should see the bills...) since he pulled back out some of the pageantry that John Paul II, and more recently Francis have had the good sense to do away with.
The fact you are unwilling to engage in the greater good shows you are still tinged by avarice, and no impure thing can stand before God and behold him in the Beatific Vision, these are the actions of an individual bound for Purgatory not Paradise. Why do you think there is such a strong history of monasticism and renunciation in Catholicism and Orthodoxy? The religious are those who are willing to go the whole hog, the laity are those who don't quite believe enough to make the full sacrifice.
Well it is true, if you actually believed what the teaching was about the last being first and the first being last you would have become a hermit and possibly taken holy orders, not shacked up in an American subpurgatory. It is hypocrisy Randy, and I'm sure you know of a few Early Church writers and what Jesus himself allegedly had to say about them!
I'm quite right, if you actually believed this why wouldn't you aim for top prize? You either don't believe or you're a hypocrite, but in any case it shows you're selfish. I'm not calling you out on that, I've no plans to sell my house and donate the profits to feed orphans anytime soon either but I don't have these delusions of grandeur attached to it.



Quote:How so? Everyone in heaven is there because of their love for God and their desire to do His will. There is no shotgun blackmail when we are eager to serve God.

You were simply wrong on this point.

No, you're eager to serve God because you're eager for a reward or you fear his unending wrath. That is not love Randy, that is not mutual respect and self giving, that is either greed or fear, possibly both. You're either a whore or a slave, again possibly both.

I'd be more polite in my terminology, but since you've shown no respect to me throughout I think it's time I stopped showing you any and said exactly what I thought.



Quote:Is this the situation you feel we are currently in? That God is holding a gun to our heads and threatening us with hell if we don't do as he says?

I don't feel we are in that situation at all Randy, I don't believe in it, I feel we are in about as much threat from this malevolent deity with a shotgun as I am of being robbed by Puss in Boots or any other fairytale character you care to name. If I have any emotional response to this it would be mourning the fact that this barbaric hellish nightmare has captured the mind of so many people for so long and that people like you are throwing more wood onto the fire.


Quote:Then let me ask you this: if this is the resentment you feel towards God under the current situation (with God being "silent" as some here claim), imagine how much more resentment you and others would feel if God were to make Himself more known to us AS FOLKS ARE ROUTINELY DEMANDING IN THIS FORUM.

How can I feel resentment towards something that doesn't exist Randy? I resent what people like yourself have done across history, I have no doubt in my mind you are the kind of individual who would gleefully start slaughtering the non believers should Francis ever call a tenth Crusade.

I wouldn't feel any different if the deity you described appeared or not Randy, certainly I would have to admit I was incorrect regarding its existance but my opinion of it would not change one bit. It is a tyranical elderitch nightmarish horror, and whever or not it is real or imaginary is irellevant if your description is correct.

I'm not a coward Randy, I meant exactly what I said. If the White Witch of Narnia appeared right now I'd still think she was a cunt if she was indeed the monster  Lewis depicted her as.



Quote:I love it when atheists finally reach the Christian position by use of their own reasoning and logic. [Image: extra_happy.gif]

You'll have to do a lot better than that to make me agree with the Catholic position Randy. I'm open to a good argument, but you've yet to provide one.
Quote:Fair enough. However, when the clock runs out on this earth, you're either with God or you aren't. It was nice of God to tell us of the next chapter and to provide the means (Jesus) by which it may go well once we turn the page.

So much for this objective morality of yours. You do realize threats of eternal damnation and emotional responses such as this are actually singled out in Catholic apologetics books as a faux pas? At least my copy of Austen Ivereigh's How to Defend the Faith without Raising your Voice which I've been reading today would suggest so.

(That's also not a very good book by the way despite the many recommendations it has received from the Catholic Herald and Catholic Answers, just one long appeal to tradition and several facts within such as the divorce rate are simply not true, I've checked.)



Quote:The difference between us is this: YOU choose to focus on the stick; I tend to focus on the carrot.

It is still equally morally abhorrent, you're preforming tricks for a doggie treat, not because you actually like this individual. You are attempting to use this capricious being for your own ends.

(July 11, 2015 at 1:03 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: And you know this because of your careful study of Catholic theology in an orthodox Catholic degree program? [Image: rolleyes.gif]


Randy, I actually do have certification to teach Catholic Theology, I've mentioned to you before that I teach Thomastic Theology on the side along with other modules. It is not my specialist subject, but I've been judged by your Church when I received my CCRS (Catholic Certificate in Religious Studies) no less to be suitably qualified to explain it along with other elements of the Catholic faith to Catholics. It's not a course I would have chosen to do, It was a condition of my employment but if that can let Catholic Teachers teach your most spiritually vulnerable young, surely what I know about your faith must be Orthodox enough if I could prove to your own Church's examiners while I don't agree with them I know my subject and can be entirely objective?

I may not be a Muslim, but I still know who Muhammad was. You may not be an Atheist, but you've deemed yourself amply qualified to call us all whores and degenerates in more flowery language since you've arrived here.
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Messages In This Thread
Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 6, 2015 at 7:47 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Chad32 - July 6, 2015 at 7:56 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Nope - July 7, 2015 at 10:17 am
Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by KUSA - July 6, 2015 at 9:46 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by bennyboy - July 6, 2015 at 10:31 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Chad32 - July 6, 2015 at 9:56 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Spooky - July 6, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by vorlon13 - July 6, 2015 at 11:36 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by dyresand - July 7, 2015 at 1:03 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 7, 2015 at 1:13 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Foxaèr - July 7, 2015 at 1:14 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Longhorn - July 7, 2015 at 2:20 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 7, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 7, 2015 at 8:44 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Cato - July 7, 2015 at 9:02 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Longhorn - July 7, 2015 at 11:04 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 7, 2015 at 11:38 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Longhorn - July 7, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 7, 2015 at 9:30 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 7, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 7, 2015 at 10:00 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Cato - July 7, 2015 at 10:07 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Pyrrho - July 7, 2015 at 7:55 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Nope - July 7, 2015 at 10:20 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 7, 2015 at 12:29 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 7, 2015 at 4:49 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 8, 2015 at 4:39 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 9, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 9, 2015 at 1:27 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 9, 2015 at 1:40 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 10, 2015 at 4:00 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 13, 2015 at 8:27 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 10, 2015 at 2:42 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Cato - July 10, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 11, 2015 at 12:54 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 9, 2015 at 11:26 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 10, 2015 at 9:25 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Chad32 - July 7, 2015 at 10:17 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 7, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Nope - July 7, 2015 at 7:13 pm
Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by KUSA - July 7, 2015 at 12:47 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 7, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 8, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by ignoramus - July 7, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 8, 2015 at 2:03 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Pyrrho - July 8, 2015 at 12:25 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 10, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 10, 2015 at 4:20 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 11, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 13, 2015 at 1:16 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Cato - July 11, 2015 at 10:25 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 12, 2015 at 11:36 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by dyresand - July 12, 2015 at 11:51 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 10, 2015 at 11:31 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 8, 2015 at 12:30 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by dyresand - July 8, 2015 at 3:31 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by rado84 - July 8, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Drich - July 9, 2015 at 11:21 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by rado84 - July 9, 2015 at 12:10 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Longhorn - July 9, 2015 at 6:25 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 9, 2015 at 8:10 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Exian - July 9, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Chad32 - July 9, 2015 at 12:14 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Chad32 - July 9, 2015 at 12:57 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Pyrrho - July 10, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 10, 2015 at 4:36 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Pizza - July 10, 2015 at 10:54 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 11, 2015 at 12:55 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 11, 2015 at 10:15 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 13, 2015 at 12:21 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Pizza - July 11, 2015 at 1:46 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Jenny A - July 11, 2015 at 10:46 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 11, 2015 at 11:36 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 11, 2015 at 12:27 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 11, 2015 at 3:46 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 11, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 11, 2015 at 11:46 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 11, 2015 at 12:03 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 11, 2015 at 3:39 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 11, 2015 at 12:56 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 11, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 12, 2015 at 4:49 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Jenny A - July 11, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 11, 2015 at 11:54 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Cato - July 11, 2015 at 10:29 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 11, 2015 at 11:19 am
Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by tonechaser77 - July 11, 2015 at 3:58 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 11, 2015 at 4:18 am
Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by tonechaser77 - July 11, 2015 at 4:30 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Rhondazvous - July 11, 2015 at 10:51 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 11, 2015 at 10:13 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by KevinM1 - July 11, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by robvalue - July 12, 2015 at 8:57 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 12, 2015 at 12:15 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 12, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 12, 2015 at 3:45 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 12, 2015 at 5:00 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 13, 2015 at 1:22 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 12, 2015 at 3:51 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 13, 2015 at 1:26 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 13, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by IATIA - July 13, 2015 at 3:22 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by TubbyTubby - July 14, 2015 at 12:06 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 14, 2015 at 1:07 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 14, 2015 at 4:07 pm
Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by TubbyTubby - July 14, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by dyresand - July 14, 2015 at 3:26 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 14, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 14, 2015 at 5:13 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 15, 2015 at 5:12 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 16, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Crossless1 - July 16, 2015 at 11:51 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by KevinM1 - July 16, 2015 at 2:05 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 17, 2015 at 2:21 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 16, 2015 at 2:59 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 17, 2015 at 1:06 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 17, 2015 at 9:06 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 17, 2015 at 6:37 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 17, 2015 at 7:20 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 17, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Metis - July 21, 2015 at 6:17 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 15, 2015 at 5:17 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 15, 2015 at 8:32 pm
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 16, 2015 at 11:48 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by TubbyTubby - July 16, 2015 at 11:58 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by Godschild - July 18, 2015 at 8:59 am
RE: Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? - by TubbyTubby - July 18, 2015 at 10:24 am

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