ouote='Randy Carson' pid='988286' dateline='1436634740']
First, there was never any bad stuff in heaven.
Second, the angels were judged based upon their own individual, free-will decisions to rebel against God. God has not given them a second chance (that we know of) because they had full knowledge and chose to rebel anyway.
We are judged in part because of our individual decisions but also in part because of the sin of Adam. However, we have not seen the Beatific Vision and so, God has made a different provision for us. We have the blood, the cross and the name of Jesus to help us resist evil. More importantly, we have confession and forgiveness to restore our relationship with God when we fail.
So, God has already decided to deal with us differently than He dealt with the angels - and this may be due to his recognition that we can't "expect to do better than they did".
[/quote]
Remember your premise is we won't choose bad in Heaven because there won't be any bad for us to choose. But now if there was never any bad in Heaven how could the angels have chosen bad? If they had some other motivation then so will too.
The way the angels will be judged and the way humans will be judged has nothing to do with it. Nobody would be judged if they had not first sinned. If, as you have just said, the angels sinned because they had freewill, then if we will have freewill then we will be just as capable of sinning.
I cannot convince you to argue with anything resembling logic and reasoning, but neither can you convince anyone reading this thread that you have the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
(July 11, 2015 at 12:27 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: First of all, you dodged dealing with what I said by directing me to go all the way back from post #1333 to post #127. You guys are so good at this. Remember, You're the evangelist here, not me. When you dodge my points you only prove that you have nothing compelling to say.
Second, if the angels were superior, how can we mere humans expect to do better than they did in resisting evil. They had one shot, you say so did god wait until after Satan rebelled to remove all the bad stuff from Heaven, so it will be a different place when humans get there?
First, there was never any bad stuff in heaven.
Second, the angels were judged based upon their own individual, free-will decisions to rebel against God. God has not given them a second chance (that we know of) because they had full knowledge and chose to rebel anyway.
We are judged in part because of our individual decisions but also in part because of the sin of Adam. However, we have not seen the Beatific Vision and so, God has made a different provision for us. We have the blood, the cross and the name of Jesus to help us resist evil. More importantly, we have confession and forgiveness to restore our relationship with God when we fail.
So, God has already decided to deal with us differently than He dealt with the angels - and this may be due to his recognition that we can't "expect to do better than they did".
[/quote]
Remember your premise is we won't choose bad in Heaven because there won't be any bad for us to choose. But now if there was never any bad in Heaven how could the angels have chosen bad? If they had some other motivation then so will too.
The way the angels will be judged and the way humans will be judged has nothing to do with it. Nobody would be judged if they had not first sinned. If, as you have just said, the angels sinned because they had freewill, then if we will have freewill then we will be just as capable of sinning.
I cannot convince you to argue with anything resembling logic and reasoning, but neither can you convince anyone reading this thread that you have the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.