RE: Does a God exist?
July 5, 2016 at 2:50 pm
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2016 at 3:52 pm by Ignorant.)
(July 5, 2016 at 6:02 am)Veritas_Vincit Wrote: Can any of the theists here actually demonstrate that a God exists? [1]
Can you concisely, empirically, logically or rationally meet your burden of proof to demonstrate that any God exists? [3]
Please start by defining what you mean by 'God.' [2]
No preaching please!
1) Probably not in a way you will find convincing.
2) Defining god at the outset is backwards, but since you asked: 'god' is subsistent-being, i.e. that-which-exists-as-'god' is being whatever-it-is completely by the power of its own act of being: no other act of being is a necessary condition for that-which-exists-as-god to be
3) Empirical evidence (EE):
a) Some things exist on the condition that other thing(s) simultaneously exist. (e.g. I exist on the condition that a certain ordering and configuration of human cells also exist simultaneously with 'me', and the 'ordering and configuration' of those cells exist on the condition that a certain amount and quality of cells exist simultaneously with the 'ordering and configuration', and the 'certain amount and quality of those cells' exist on the condition that a certain ordering and configuration of molecules exist simultaneously with the 'amount and quality of those cells', etc.)
b) No non-abstract (i.e. non-mathematical) actual infinity of things is known to exist (i.e. All aggregates of 'things' are finite aggregates)
Logical axiom (LA): Non-abstract actual infinities cannot exist
Logical Demonstration:
Given EE(a) is true, then either:
i) All things exist on the condition that other thing(s) simultaneously exist, or
ii) At least one thing exists without the condition that other thing(s) exist.
If EE(a) is true, then there is no possibility besides (i) and (ii)
Suppose (i) is true. Then all things are aggregates of an infinity of simultaneously existing things, which are themselves aggregates of an infinity of simultaneously existing things, etc.)
However, supposing LA (which is consistent with EE(b)), then (i) cannot be true.
Therefore, (ii) must be true: at least one thing exists without the condition that other thing(s) exist.
What is this thing(s)? The demonstration cannot answer that. Does such a thing(s) exist? Yes, and it exists in the most simple and fundamental way: it just is.
To facilitate the discussion about this thing or things, call it/them whatever you want. I happen to call it/them 'god'