Although I am not that knowledgeable on such issues and I don’t even count as an especially religious individual (I don’t do the fasting in Ramadan and I didn’t attend Friday prayers since several years now, but I still remain within the definition of a believer accordingly with the five basic principles of Islam according to its traditional definition), I do have some basic knowledge on some basic issues (that come from my personal connections and some amount of literature I have been reading) and I decided not to leave the interpretation of this issue to some more traditional religious thinkers and to share my own thoughts on the issue.
Actually I happen to have a B.A. in Archaeology and Egyptian Archaeology used to be one of my favorite classes at the time. I also have a great collection of the books of the French Egyptologist and historical novel writer Christian Jacq.
The Muslim Holy Book mentions the world pharaoh about 74 times and does so in a quite negative manner. And from the biblical quotation of the name Ramses, and from the reference in the Quran that says “Did you not see that rivers are flowing under my feet?” (This is a clear reference to the Temple of Ramses II at Abu Simbel that was erected at the boundary with the Kingdom of Nubia at the time that was entirely dedicated to the worship of Pharaoh and his wife Nefertari). Also a verse in the Quran says “We drowned his army but preserved his body because he decided to repent at the last moment”. And this explains that the Mummy the Ramses II could be mummified at an old age and he seems to have died from tooth infection rather having drowned in the red sea while chasing the Jews who were fleeing his rule. The book series called “Ramses” also features a confrontation between the prophet Moses and Ramses II but does so in a more unbiased way. In fact Chistian Jacq describes ancient Egypt as an advanced culture that we could describe as a state that embraces the rule of law.
So I am pondering why is the pharaoh depicted as such a theocratic / despotic entity despite all the scientific data? There is another writer called Joseph Selbie who comes from one of the serious lines of Gurus of the Yogic tradition. His idea is that at the time of the rule of Ramses II (1279-1213 BC) Egypt was in a state of moral, spiritual and religious regression and increasing corruption in its political, social and religious structure. So maybe Ramses II was a little like Augustus in Rome or Suleiman the Magnificent in the Ottoman Empire. He was a figure of stability and successful governance in an overall period of political regression and increasing social oppression that is due to the way of governance being increasingly based on brutal power and oppression rather than higher ideals, rule of law and widespread acceptance of religious and political power by the general population. Another possibility is that (just like it is mentioned in the holy book Yunus 52: 90-92) The Pharaoh who saw his army drowning in the Red Sea decided to abandon his egocentric / megalomaniac way of living and truly became a wise King like King Solomon in the remaining period of his life.
The reason why I give Credit to this theory is that Ramses II was more or less the last truly great king of Egypt. He dies at 1213 BC and his Son or Grandson battles the famous “Seas Peoples” whose arrival mean the end of the Hittites, the Assyrians and almost all great powers of the time in the Near-East. There are no Great achievements of the Egyptian Culture after that Era and in the 8th century they are conquered by Assyrians, Persians and then by the Greeks and finally by the Romans in the 1st century BC.
Also Tutankhamun who was the Son of the “heretic” king Akhenaten was a predecessor of Ramses II. Akhenaten wanted to diminish the power of the religious clergy by adopting a single God religion that placed him at the center of religious and political life. Than palace conspiracies happened (his wife Nefertiti [1379-1362 BC] even asked help from the Hittites in order to avoid being married to the King’s Scribe Penthu who wanted to become the Pharaoh after Akhenaten). So base don this we can speculate that at least the second half of the New Kingdom (1550-1069 BC) was rather a period of regression for the Egyptian culture as a whole and it is therefore possible that the “pharaoh” as described in the Quran is one of the earliest example of theocratic rule that continued to plague the world as a whole.
Theocratic rule in the West Ends with the French and American Revolutions. In my country it ends with the declaration of independence in 1923. In many middle-eastern countries it is still highly present. Even in places like India and Brazil, we are witnessing the arrival of some populist leaders who seem to be willing to promote a theocratic way of governance. So as it is said by many scholars, the pharaoh (although he is probably a real historical person) is rather an archetype of theocratic dictatorship rather than a personalized evil person.
The reason why I wanted to post this thread is because I want to bring this debated to the issue of abortion. The reason for this is that the pharaoh in the Muslim holy book is a creature that controls the belief of others (he asks “Did you believe him (Moses) without my permission?), he does proclaim his own divinity, he creates conspiracies to attain his aims, he is surrounded and supported by the wealthy class and the clergy, He does not produce good by his own effort, He rather takes what has been produced by others by force an than likes to display this “power” by displaying his wealth, He is the one who creates “corruption on earth” yet he blames Moses of creating discord in his empire, He denies scientific / rational / evidence that is possible to demonstrate by scientific means in favor of “what has been taught to us by our ancestors” (He is the “conservative” type, Moses is the “revolutionary” type), He values brutal force rather than hard work and scientific evidence (Ar. Kudret vs. Huccet), his reliance on military power is emphasized in many places, Religion is one of his man tools to fool the people (Ex. Lukman 33, FAtir 5, Hadid 14 “May those who deceive you not deceive you with God”), He opposes freedom of religion (he asks “Did you believe him without my permission?”) He opposes secularism (Because he is a God-King, Just like Augustus). While King Solomon is depicted as a king who has respect even for the ants while his army moves from one place to another, the pharaoh is like the antonym for that who “Represses the people, and the people obeyed him”. The “magic” that is performed by “the magicians” of the pharaoh is interpreted by modern scholars as “propaganda” or “fake news” or “mass hypnosis” of the population. And the miracles of the prophet Moses are described as “magic” by the entourage of the pharaoh. Because theocratic rule does not believe in “truth” theocratic rule believes in “magic” and “magicians” that is: Propaganda, brainwashing, disinformation, palace conspiracies, mass hypnosis and permanent lies (that are based on religion) that are designed to manipulate the masses. And the staff and “white hand” displayed by Moses probably represents truth and scientific evidence that dissipates all the lies and false propaganda…
And the issue of abortions also appears as an important theme here. See, methods of contraception were based on herbal medicine and rudimentary at best in Ancient Egypt. The Egyptians had a good medical system but it was nothing similar to our modern medicine. So there was no methods of abortion at the time of Ramses II. Yet the Quran describes him as someone who “divided the people into different classes of people” and than “maintained a hand on the uterus of the female population”. This cannot mean that there were forced abortions in Ancient Egypt. This can only mean the opposite: The pharaoh wanted as many children as possible and he was opposed to contraception. And modern pharaohs also, don’t like the idea of women having a right of decision over their own bodies so even in Europe, they try to do the best they can, to make it almost impossible for each and every woman to get an abortion in a safe / state-approved clinic.
Also: Jagadish Vasudev (Sadhguru) who is a great Yogi of India, indicate that in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy “the soul” or “life itself” is in the process of experimenting with the womb. So the life there, isn’t yet a true / permanent life. Yet Sadhguru is still critical of the issue and say (after saying that it’s the woman’s decision only) that this should not be done without a feeling of responsibility and should not be seen as an ordinary and simple medical procedure either (after all it’s not an aesthetical procedure, it’s still a life and one shouldn’t be totally irresponsible about such decisions either).
So again, the story of the pharaoh being an allegory for a typical / fanatical theocratic ruler, these theocratic rulers like to “maintain their hand on the female uterus” and to control the female body just like they like the control the mind of the population as a whole. Verses in the Quran seem to indicate that these rulers like to give awards to their supporters while reserving severe punishments to their opponents and accusing anyone who opposes their ideas of “being magicians” or “willing to create corruption in his kingdom or –corruption on earth – “. Like using the media a tool to discredit all views that go against their ways of seeing things or to say that these people are involved in conspiracies etc… They seem to like division too (as in “divide e domine”). They like to create factions within society, they like polarization. They also like sectarianism. The Quran says “do not be divided among yourselves” (“do not follow sectarian leaders” – There has to be one God and one prophet). Yet the Pharaoh loves divisions. So all theocratic rules (like those of Ottoman Sultans for instance) have promoted sectarianism until it was banned in the new Turkish Republic in 1923. “Zulum” (oppression) and “israf” (extravagance) is their typical nature. They “take thing that were produced by hard work through brutal force” and than use it “to display their wealth”. In some schools of Islam, this phase (also described as “emmare”) is the lowest state of the human ego. In this state the Ego is unable of self-criticism, believes in the quasi-divine state of itself, it does not respect reason or scientific evidence, it knowns no boundary and is ready to do all sorts of harm on others because it believes in its own supremacy. As a religious book, these parts of the Quran are warning us against the extremes that could be displayed by our own egos if we were to surrender to its entirely material perception of the world rather than always remaining open to scientific evidence and a more philosophical way of seeing things. (or having the Ego “surrendered” to what is spiritual in us as it is described by Yogis).
Actually I happen to have a B.A. in Archaeology and Egyptian Archaeology used to be one of my favorite classes at the time. I also have a great collection of the books of the French Egyptologist and historical novel writer Christian Jacq.
The Muslim Holy Book mentions the world pharaoh about 74 times and does so in a quite negative manner. And from the biblical quotation of the name Ramses, and from the reference in the Quran that says “Did you not see that rivers are flowing under my feet?” (This is a clear reference to the Temple of Ramses II at Abu Simbel that was erected at the boundary with the Kingdom of Nubia at the time that was entirely dedicated to the worship of Pharaoh and his wife Nefertari). Also a verse in the Quran says “We drowned his army but preserved his body because he decided to repent at the last moment”. And this explains that the Mummy the Ramses II could be mummified at an old age and he seems to have died from tooth infection rather having drowned in the red sea while chasing the Jews who were fleeing his rule. The book series called “Ramses” also features a confrontation between the prophet Moses and Ramses II but does so in a more unbiased way. In fact Chistian Jacq describes ancient Egypt as an advanced culture that we could describe as a state that embraces the rule of law.
So I am pondering why is the pharaoh depicted as such a theocratic / despotic entity despite all the scientific data? There is another writer called Joseph Selbie who comes from one of the serious lines of Gurus of the Yogic tradition. His idea is that at the time of the rule of Ramses II (1279-1213 BC) Egypt was in a state of moral, spiritual and religious regression and increasing corruption in its political, social and religious structure. So maybe Ramses II was a little like Augustus in Rome or Suleiman the Magnificent in the Ottoman Empire. He was a figure of stability and successful governance in an overall period of political regression and increasing social oppression that is due to the way of governance being increasingly based on brutal power and oppression rather than higher ideals, rule of law and widespread acceptance of religious and political power by the general population. Another possibility is that (just like it is mentioned in the holy book Yunus 52: 90-92) The Pharaoh who saw his army drowning in the Red Sea decided to abandon his egocentric / megalomaniac way of living and truly became a wise King like King Solomon in the remaining period of his life.
The reason why I give Credit to this theory is that Ramses II was more or less the last truly great king of Egypt. He dies at 1213 BC and his Son or Grandson battles the famous “Seas Peoples” whose arrival mean the end of the Hittites, the Assyrians and almost all great powers of the time in the Near-East. There are no Great achievements of the Egyptian Culture after that Era and in the 8th century they are conquered by Assyrians, Persians and then by the Greeks and finally by the Romans in the 1st century BC.
Also Tutankhamun who was the Son of the “heretic” king Akhenaten was a predecessor of Ramses II. Akhenaten wanted to diminish the power of the religious clergy by adopting a single God religion that placed him at the center of religious and political life. Than palace conspiracies happened (his wife Nefertiti [1379-1362 BC] even asked help from the Hittites in order to avoid being married to the King’s Scribe Penthu who wanted to become the Pharaoh after Akhenaten). So base don this we can speculate that at least the second half of the New Kingdom (1550-1069 BC) was rather a period of regression for the Egyptian culture as a whole and it is therefore possible that the “pharaoh” as described in the Quran is one of the earliest example of theocratic rule that continued to plague the world as a whole.
Theocratic rule in the West Ends with the French and American Revolutions. In my country it ends with the declaration of independence in 1923. In many middle-eastern countries it is still highly present. Even in places like India and Brazil, we are witnessing the arrival of some populist leaders who seem to be willing to promote a theocratic way of governance. So as it is said by many scholars, the pharaoh (although he is probably a real historical person) is rather an archetype of theocratic dictatorship rather than a personalized evil person.
The reason why I wanted to post this thread is because I want to bring this debated to the issue of abortion. The reason for this is that the pharaoh in the Muslim holy book is a creature that controls the belief of others (he asks “Did you believe him (Moses) without my permission?), he does proclaim his own divinity, he creates conspiracies to attain his aims, he is surrounded and supported by the wealthy class and the clergy, He does not produce good by his own effort, He rather takes what has been produced by others by force an than likes to display this “power” by displaying his wealth, He is the one who creates “corruption on earth” yet he blames Moses of creating discord in his empire, He denies scientific / rational / evidence that is possible to demonstrate by scientific means in favor of “what has been taught to us by our ancestors” (He is the “conservative” type, Moses is the “revolutionary” type), He values brutal force rather than hard work and scientific evidence (Ar. Kudret vs. Huccet), his reliance on military power is emphasized in many places, Religion is one of his man tools to fool the people (Ex. Lukman 33, FAtir 5, Hadid 14 “May those who deceive you not deceive you with God”), He opposes freedom of religion (he asks “Did you believe him without my permission?”) He opposes secularism (Because he is a God-King, Just like Augustus). While King Solomon is depicted as a king who has respect even for the ants while his army moves from one place to another, the pharaoh is like the antonym for that who “Represses the people, and the people obeyed him”. The “magic” that is performed by “the magicians” of the pharaoh is interpreted by modern scholars as “propaganda” or “fake news” or “mass hypnosis” of the population. And the miracles of the prophet Moses are described as “magic” by the entourage of the pharaoh. Because theocratic rule does not believe in “truth” theocratic rule believes in “magic” and “magicians” that is: Propaganda, brainwashing, disinformation, palace conspiracies, mass hypnosis and permanent lies (that are based on religion) that are designed to manipulate the masses. And the staff and “white hand” displayed by Moses probably represents truth and scientific evidence that dissipates all the lies and false propaganda…
And the issue of abortions also appears as an important theme here. See, methods of contraception were based on herbal medicine and rudimentary at best in Ancient Egypt. The Egyptians had a good medical system but it was nothing similar to our modern medicine. So there was no methods of abortion at the time of Ramses II. Yet the Quran describes him as someone who “divided the people into different classes of people” and than “maintained a hand on the uterus of the female population”. This cannot mean that there were forced abortions in Ancient Egypt. This can only mean the opposite: The pharaoh wanted as many children as possible and he was opposed to contraception. And modern pharaohs also, don’t like the idea of women having a right of decision over their own bodies so even in Europe, they try to do the best they can, to make it almost impossible for each and every woman to get an abortion in a safe / state-approved clinic.
Also: Jagadish Vasudev (Sadhguru) who is a great Yogi of India, indicate that in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy “the soul” or “life itself” is in the process of experimenting with the womb. So the life there, isn’t yet a true / permanent life. Yet Sadhguru is still critical of the issue and say (after saying that it’s the woman’s decision only) that this should not be done without a feeling of responsibility and should not be seen as an ordinary and simple medical procedure either (after all it’s not an aesthetical procedure, it’s still a life and one shouldn’t be totally irresponsible about such decisions either).
So again, the story of the pharaoh being an allegory for a typical / fanatical theocratic ruler, these theocratic rulers like to “maintain their hand on the female uterus” and to control the female body just like they like the control the mind of the population as a whole. Verses in the Quran seem to indicate that these rulers like to give awards to their supporters while reserving severe punishments to their opponents and accusing anyone who opposes their ideas of “being magicians” or “willing to create corruption in his kingdom or –corruption on earth – “. Like using the media a tool to discredit all views that go against their ways of seeing things or to say that these people are involved in conspiracies etc… They seem to like division too (as in “divide e domine”). They like to create factions within society, they like polarization. They also like sectarianism. The Quran says “do not be divided among yourselves” (“do not follow sectarian leaders” – There has to be one God and one prophet). Yet the Pharaoh loves divisions. So all theocratic rules (like those of Ottoman Sultans for instance) have promoted sectarianism until it was banned in the new Turkish Republic in 1923. “Zulum” (oppression) and “israf” (extravagance) is their typical nature. They “take thing that were produced by hard work through brutal force” and than use it “to display their wealth”. In some schools of Islam, this phase (also described as “emmare”) is the lowest state of the human ego. In this state the Ego is unable of self-criticism, believes in the quasi-divine state of itself, it does not respect reason or scientific evidence, it knowns no boundary and is ready to do all sorts of harm on others because it believes in its own supremacy. As a religious book, these parts of the Quran are warning us against the extremes that could be displayed by our own egos if we were to surrender to its entirely material perception of the world rather than always remaining open to scientific evidence and a more philosophical way of seeing things. (or having the Ego “surrendered” to what is spiritual in us as it is described by Yogis).
