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Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
#1
Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
I'm going to be refuting this book systematically and show that not only does Khomeini have an essential contradiction in his lectures, but that the Ayatollah and revolution leader ignores majority of clear texts regarding this, and twists unclear ones in his favor.

And not to mention what the Quran says.

For those interested, here is a book with the series of lectures: https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-governm...m-khomeini

Quote:We believe in government and believe that the Prophet (s) was bound to appoint a successor, as he indeed did. Was a successor designated purely for the sake of expounding law? The expounding of law did not require a successor to the Prophet. He himself, after all, had expounded the laws; it would have been enough for the laws to be written down in a book and put into people’s hands to guide them in their actions. It was logically necessary for a successor to be appointed for the sake of exercising government. Law requires a person to execute it. The same holds true in all countries of the world, for the establishment of a law is of little benefit in itself and cannot secure the happiness of man. After a law is established, it is necessary also to create an executive power. If a system of law or government lacks an executive power, it is clearly deficient. Thus Islam, just as it established laws, also brought into being an executive power.
 
There was still a further question: who was to hold the executive power? If the Prophet (s) had not appointed a successor to assume the executive power, he would have failed to complete his mission, as the Qur’an testifies. The necessity for the implementation of divine law, the need for an executive power, and the importance of that power in fulfilling the goals of the prophetic mission and establishing a just order that would result in the happiness of mankind—all of this made the appointment of a successor synonymous with the completion of the prophetic mission. In the time of the Prophet (s), laws were not merely expounded and promulgated; they were also implemented. The Messenger of God (s) was an executor of the law. For example, he implemented the penal provisions of Islam: he cut off the hand of the thief and administered lashings and stonings. The successor to the Prophet (s) must do the same; his task is not legislation, but the implementation of the divine laws that the Prophet (s) has promulgated. It is for this reason that the formation of a government and the establishment of executive organs are necessary. Belief in the necessity for these is part of the general belief in the Imamate, as are, too, exertion and struggle for the sake of establishing them.

He presents it as the primary purpose of Imammate, and appointing Imams, was for establish of government. And some respects, he is right, it was to have a just government. But to have a just government, the reason why you need appointed leaders from God, is because corruption will take place in the religion with respect to interpretation.

He presents an ad hoc reasoning, the Prophet could have just presented the laws in a book, or God could have just presented. Well since, he didn't, than the preservation of the laws and the interpretation of the divine book, was never a big deal.

But obviously it is a big deal, since Islamic government rests on it today without a leader from God. 

An unjust interpretation of the laws of Quran and unjust corrupt interpretation of ahadith, and unjust approach to Quran and Sunnah, was the primary struggle of the Imams. In fact, when unjust government became a default reality, the rest of the Imams after Imam Hussain,  devoted their lives to educating the masses about the true teachings of Islam.


Tusi rightly said for every hadith in Shiite hadiths, there is the exact opposite, (this is not totally true, just that there is so many with contradictions).


While he was right that Islam is not divorced from politics.  What I will be arguing, that, the Jurist doesn't take the position of the Prophet and 12 Imams with respect TO ANY authority they had, including government.

In fact, I will be arguing the model of government has to be democratic anarchy, in the sense, that it has to be mutual council between believers, and not looking for a few elite clergy class to lead them in Quran and Sunnah.

Keep in mind how he dismisses the issue of incorrect laws or teachings or interpretation as insignificant, as the Prophet could have wrote "all the laws" in a book.

This also ignoring the history in which the first 3 Caliphs burned hadith books all in the name of preserving Quran which was already preserved during Prophet time, but rather, it was to eradicate the commentary of the Prophet and the Sunnah, to make way for innovations.

All that, is not important part of history.  Islam was not divorced from politics in that time, he is right, but it was misused, and the Sunnah on the attack by 3 Caliphs to the extent they burned hadith books and forbid writing of hadiths.

The many Quran collected was to get rid of any commentary people put in those as well.  

And here we have it, all that, could of easily been all solved, if the Prophet just wrote all the laws in the book, but obviously, that laws being preserved and true interpretation is not important for Khomeini at this point.

He needs to convince the scholars to support him for his power hunger in order to defeat imperialism. The subject of how do we what is truly Islam and what is not, thus is diminished for this purpose.

Keep this in mind as I will quote other parts of his so called proofs.
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#2
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
Quote:Of course, it is not necessary for all officials, provincial governors, and administrators to know all the laws of Islam and be fuqahā; it is enough that they should know the laws pertaining to their functions and duties. Such was the case in the time of the Prophet  (s), and the Commander of the Faithful (‘a). The highest authority must possess the two qualities mentioned—comprehensive knowledge and justice—but his assistants, officials and those sent to the provinces need know only the laws relevant to their own tasks; on other matters they must consult the ruler.
           
The ruler must also possess excellence in morals and belief; he must be just and untainted by major sins. Anyone who wishes to enact the penalties provided by Islam (i.e., to implement the penal code), to supervise the public treasury and the income and expenditures of the state, and to have God assign to him the power to administer the affairs of His creatures must not be a sinner. God says in the Qur’an: “my vow does not embrace the wrongdoer” (2:124);12 therefore, He will not assign such functions to an oppressor or sinner.
           
If the ruler is not just in granting the Muslims their rights, he will not conduct himself equitably in levying taxes and spending them correctly and in implementing the penal code. It becomes possible then for his assistants, helpers, and confidants to impose their will on society, diverting the public treasury to personal and frivolous use.
           
Thus, the view of the Shī‘ah concerning government and the nature of the persons who should assume rule was clear from the time following the death of the Prophet (s) down to the beginning of the Occultation.13 It is specified that the ruler should be foremost in knowledge of the laws and ordinances of Islam, and just in their implementation.

What he hides in addition to that, is that Shiite creed is that humans can't recognize who has comprehensive knowledge or is of highest virtue or pure, without proof from God.

He is trying to make the case, that since Shiites always argued for the case that the Imams were most superior in knowledge and virtue, that they were the proper leaders, what he doesn't realize is they argued, that this is why we need designation from God. Because people pick leaders according to whims, while, the True Leader of God is often belittled, and deemed weak, he and his followers mocked.

Keep this in mind as later, I Will share many hadiths and verses in Quran that emphasize on this point, That's it's not for us to choose our leaders because we don't know while God knows.

In fact, the central argument for Prophethood is that.



Quote:The two qualities of knowledge of the law and justice are present in countless fuqahā of the present age. If they come together, they could establish a government of universal justice in the world.
           
If a worthy individual possessing these two qualities arises and establishes a government, he will posses the same authority as the Most Noble Messenger (‘a) in the administration of society, and it will be the duty of all people to obey him.

Whether that is the case or not, the possibility of corrupt Fuqaha exists, as he testifies to many of them being corrupt.  This idea that we can recognize who has true comprehensive knowledge of the law and is just, is not proven at all.

In fact, we dispute regarding interpretation. And he trivializes this not important.

A hadith he quoted about the purpose of Imams was among many reasons - one being to preserve the laws because people follow their own opinion and create innovations.


However, that was proof of God why GOD appoints a leader and in fact, refutation, to why humans can appoint leaders.

These hadiths were put forth to say why we need God given leadership and that humans cannot choose.

Those were the context. So it refutes him, but I will present many hadiths that are clear in this regard and verses that we are not suppose to choose.


You see, if you start with the notion you aren't suppose to choose, then you don't something stupid like give the Authority of God and his Prophets to normal people, like scholars. 

That is like a bad patch in programming, you patch some holes, but it will create more problems, and more disunity. 

Obviously there was benefits in Monarchies in the past, and there will be benefits in government ruled by a Scholar and headed by a scholar, but is giving the Prophet's authority to a human without proof from God, allowed?

And in fact, we will see he will try to misinterpret 4:59 as Sunnis and non-Shiites have for centuries, with divorcing it from it's dialogue of this very issue. Scholars vs appointed leaders of God.


I am just showing reasoning of his, so far. I will be presenting verses and hadiths against his arguments soon.
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#3
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
Why are you doing this?  Seriously - what is your purpose?

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#4
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
(October 16, 2018 at 8:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why are you doing this?  Seriously - what is your purpose?

Boru

For one: to show you can be free from clergy and their manipulation and claims of authority and follow the religion they believe in as well.

Two: To show critical thinking skills, to show ways of refuting clergy and their claim of power in Islam and proving it in Quran and hadiths.

Three: Show Islam is totally free from the games of these people who really religion is a game to them and we are their pawns while they do not fear attributing God what they do not know.

Four: Show democratic anarchy religiously and politically as a stepping ground to achieving peace in the middle-east. (I know middle-east peace seems impossible, but I got to try and am just writing down thoughts here before one day I Will try to publish them in more thorough and eloquent form).
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#5
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
But, why do we have to be your target audience?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#6
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
(October 16, 2018 at 8:45 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: But, why do we have to be your target audience?

You don't need to read it.  No exam questions, honey.

Anyone wants to read it, can. Anyone who doesn't, doesn't need to.
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#7
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
Ban wish. If he throws enough shit on the rug, he'll be gone without having to do anything except post all kinds of shit, instead of manning up and just walking away. IMO.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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#8
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
(October 16, 2018 at 8:46 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(October 16, 2018 at 8:45 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: But, why do we have to be your target audience?

You don't need to read it.  No exam questions, honey.

Don’t worry; I don’t plan on it, poopy.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Reply
#9
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
Among the hadiths, that certain people do not want others to know is:

Al-Kafi H2497, CH 113, h5
Imam  Jafar Sadiq a.s : 

Beware of leadership and beware of marching behind men

(following them).
I asked : May Allah take my soul in service for your cause,
I understand what leadership is, However, as far as walking behind men
Is concerned, I must acknowledge that two thirds of what I know are from
walking behind men.

The Imam said: It is not the way you think.
Beware of
supporting a man who does not have any divine authority but you acknowledge whatever he has said.
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#10
RE: Refuting the book "Islamic government" (series of lectures of Khomeini)
Ban
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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