RE: Meliorism - The rise of neo-atheism and the fall of reason
April 18, 2013 at 10:52 am
(This post was last modified: April 18, 2013 at 10:54 am by ManMachine.)
(April 18, 2013 at 9:09 am)frz Wrote: @MM, I've gone back and re-read your arguments and this is what I'm getting from you; we, the human species, have not progress since we've been here on this planet.
In essence, yes.
I am not refuting that we have gained power through science and technology, neither am I refuting that science and technology has brought change, it clearly has brought both.
Quote:yone who thinks any different is being a theist
No, Im not saying that anyone who thinks that is a theist, it takes far more than stray Christian dogma to make a theist. That's an absurd thing to say.
Quote:... because, as you so put it, these neo-atheists, are deluted in this notion of progress that they have base on the facts of what we humans have accomplished in the fields of science and technology.
Because progress of any kind must be measured against something.
If I want 50 cats and I only have 30 then gaining 5 would be progress against my target of 50. If I just want an unspecified number of cats then an extra 5 is a gain (or a change) in the number of cats I have but cannot be called progress because there is nothing for it to progress toward. Any kind of 'progress' needs a measure.
When we think about species progress we do not imagine elephants, bears, pythons etc. have progressed as a species because it makes no sense, why then do we think it about our own species? There is no question we have some special talents, complex language and skills that enable us to manipulate resources; we can fly through the air and harness the power of the atom but how has any of this progressed us as a species?
The only way this makes sense is if we imagine we are somehow different to other animals, that we are immune to the genetic drifts that we emerged out of, that among all the species we alone are immune to the random events that govern evolution. If we look at this in a disinterested scientific way, there is no empirical evidence to support this point of view.
To a Christian it makes perfect sense we are different to other animals, it makes perfect sense we are masters of the planet, because it is inherent in Christian Dogma. The belief that we are different, this species ego or anthropocentrism is a remnant of Christian Dogma that has permeated into our modern thoughts.
This does not make all atheists who think this way theists but if we are to hold science up as the best way to investigate the universe then we must apply it to all our thoughts and not be selective in persuit of our collective ego and the notion of progress.
For most atheists this is not really a big issue but for those who go after religion in the name of reason it makes for deep hypocrisy.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
