RE: Meliorism - The rise of neo-atheism and the fall of reason
April 19, 2013 at 2:48 am
(This post was last modified: April 19, 2013 at 3:14 am by ManMachine.)
(April 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm)Strongbad Wrote:(April 18, 2013 at 4:02 am)ManMachine Wrote: As for being 'part of a group', being an atheist is not a social choice for me it's a personal assertion that there is no god(s). As far as I'm concerned there is no 'group' just individuals with a variety of opinions, ideologies and philosophies who agree on one point, that there are no deities.
Your lack of understanding of what atheism is only serves to bolster the suspicions of members here (including myself) that you are simply posing as an atheist. Very few atheists make the claim "there are no deities". Sure, a small fraction of atheists are "strong atheists" and will make the positive claim, but of course that is recognized by most of us as simply a bare assertion.
Further, your disjointed claim that "neo-atheists" embrace Meliorism and somehow "hold all modern science to be inviolable" doesn't help your case much. Neither Meliorism or science have anything to do with disbelieving the deistic claims of others.
It helps if you read what's written. I am saying the absence of belief in a deity is characteristic of atheism, I also very clarly said,
"... with a variety of opinions, ideologies and philosophies ..."
I don't understand why you would pick a phrase in isolation then proceed to re-say what I've already said to point out it needs saying?
Utterly pointless.
MM
(April 18, 2013 at 3:23 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: As far as I can tell, MM has yet to define "Human Progress" and how we would know it if we saw it.
Metrics such as life expectancy, child mortality rates, starvation rates, numbers of women dieing during childbirth, murder rates and so on, are apparently not useful to measure progress.
So what is then?
You seem to have your own definition.
The reason I'm not defining it is because it is a notion I am asserting is a delusion, there is no acceptable definition of a delusion. There are any number of different opinions throughout this thread as to what constitutes 'human progress', there seem to be a vague agreement that it is some kind of value judgement heavily reliant on social context. All of which underlines my point.
I'm not going to fall into the trap of defining your delusion for you.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
