The Case for Atheism

[Mister Agenda]

You're making all kinds of assumptions. I could suggest you might be alarmed at the notion we are the result of a Creator.

Proof that irony can't kill you.

I guess you'd be surprised to know it was theists who rejected the notion of small gods who control rain and earthquakes and proposed the God who designed and caused the universe. There have been many scientific discoveries that have been favorable to theism as well.

Um, it was theists who believed in the 'small gods' too. Theism isn't just your version of things, it's merely the belief that some sort of God or gods exist. All their theisms are belong to you if you're not going to be more specific. Disproving other people's theism isn't favorable to theism.

According to you guys...is that a surprise?

Ad hom fallacy.

And this is the kind of rhetoric you think makes for a fallacious argument.

What makes an argument fallacious is it containing or being based on a fallacy.

This isn't about the case for theism, been there done that. This is about the case for atheism. Whats your best take on what caused the universe, life and sentient life to exist? If your skeptical that God caused it what makes you believe that mindless forces 'poofed' into existence and then with out plan or intent caused life and sentience something totally unlike itself?

Fallacy of appeal to ridicule.

I'm well aware of that. I'm trying to goad them into making a case for what they claim to believe.

Our claim is that we don't believe in God. We actually don't believe in God. Q.E.D.

I suppose its pure coincidence that they failed by people who were atheists prior to the argument. You do realize there have been lots of people who became theists (Antony Flew for example) because of the arguments and in which case they succeeded.

So arguments don't work on atheists except when they do?

But look guys I didn't start this thread to hear of failed theist arguments. I don't care why you think arguments for God fail on what basis do you believe that mindless forces caused life and sentience to exist?

Mindless forces do all kinds of things. All you've got for thinking they can't is the fallacy of argument from incredulity.

You've taken extreme liberty with the definition of atheism. Atheism means not or without God. It means whatever theists attribute to God (the universe, life so forth) was caused somehow apart from God. Its the belief that God doesn't exiist and therefore couldn't have caused the universe or life to exist. I'm asking what evidence facts data support the conclusion (if atheism is true) that something other than God caused the universe and life to exist.

It's not the belief God doesn't exist. It's the lack of the belief that God does exist. It's the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis holds until it is disproved, else, to be consistent, one would have to believe every proposal heard.

Atheists promote the thought in the market place of ideas that God doesn't exist.

Only if you're really determined not to hear what we're actually saying.

It only stands to reason if you don't believe God caused our existence that you believe natural forces without plan or intent did. I mean be honest...that is what you think. Why? On what basis? Make your case! This is the atheist forum is it not?

That's what I personally think, but not because I'm an atheist, because I'm a rationalist. Being an atheist doesn't prevent you from believing in all kinds of spooky things, just one. There are atheists who believe in astrology and reincarnation. Just as you confused the issue by claiming disproving the claims of other theists bolstered theism, saying what atheists think when I know atheists aren't in any more agreement than theists would be adding to the confusion.

In other words, you're asking the wrong questions, both of atheists and theists, because you're trying to make very general terms fit in very specific boxes.

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Apophenia, I demand a response from you because every single time that I dispute your unfounded assertions, and ask for clarification, you fail to respond with a counter argument that substantiates your position. Furthermore, I have followed a lot of your postings, and it appears as though you lack the capacity to engage in a coherent, consistent debate/exchange of ideas. The following seems to be the case with you: once you have expressed your opinion on a topic, you believe the case is closed and that the discussion should be abandoned. To me, this just comes across as somebody who lacks the aptitude to respond to objections.

Aren't you the guy who chided Baalzebutt for making insulting posts? Are you one of those people who thinks it's not insulting as long as your post doesn't have the word 'fuck' in it?

I don't pay too much attention to insulting posts usually, but when they come from one of the 'tone police', I'm always a little more surprised at the hypocrisy than I should be. If you're not above it yourself, maybe you shouldn't be calling other people out on it.

And you're demanding a response? I dare you to be more pompous.

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What I do know, however, is that these mindless forces do exist, and when you combine that with the lack of convincing arguments for god, it seems much more probable that these mindless forces are responsible for life.

Not to mention, you can be a theist and still believe mindless forces are responsible for life. There are plenty of mythologies that don't start with a god, but a pre-existing universe that somehow preduces a god or gods. Making theism and atheism depend on creation accounts is very Middle East-centered.