Aurelius seals the deal?

[ecolox]

You are equivocating "devout" with "good".

Devotion to just gods - or being good because the gods are good. What is being devout to just gods to you? How could it be anything different than what I am "equivocating".

Devotion to Gods is what is meant up above, and why should that be the first thing on a God's list?

If you chose to believe in just gods, then how could being devout be anything other than being good in this case? Why wouldn't the just gods want you to be good first?

Isn't it better to just be good, whether devoted to Gods or not?

How are you deciding that good is simply better? Doesn't being good require a person to sacrifice themselves or their means? Why would someone give up their own? Can anyone "just be good", without any ultimate reason? Isn't that irrational? It would be like a partial suicide, at the very least - and if they gave themselves up completely (without any ultimate reason) it would be like suicide, wouldn't it?

And isn't it worse to be bad whether you're devoted to God or not?

Again, by what standard? Being bad is easy to justify (so long as you avoid getting in trouble) - it means taking real benefits (that you can see and feel) that aren't yours or that aren't anyones that you know of (but that may be against the gods' wishes). This is inline with individual survival/livelihood - which is ultimately all an individual atheist has, right? It means acting in favor of yourself. It means acting with the goal of "winning" benefits. What rules are there to prevent competition on every front (whether it be winning through thievery or through consensual deals)?

How does 'devoted to God' necessarily=Good? Or at all better than undevoted to God?

Could being devoted to just gods be anything other than Good? If someone is un-devoted to just gods, then how can they be good (or as you say "better")?

And if there are no gods, then you will be destroyed and all evidence of your "noble life" will be destroyed.

Evidence that please.

It is your belief that you will be destroyed, along with anyone who may remember you - right? If these entities are not headed towards destruction (as I thought your belief necessitated), where are they going?

Is it the fact that God is said to discriminate between good and evil that incites atheists to deny God?

No. Different atheists disbelieve for a number of different reasons. I myself don't believe because I know of no evidence.

I see. Our existence is evidence of something though, isn't it?

---

For all have sinned and fallen short of the grace of God. It is by grace alone that Christians are saved not by any of there actions on this Earth. That was my interpretation when I was a believer.

Rhizo

First you say all have fallen short of the grace of God. Then you say some do not fall short of grace (since they are saved by grace).

How is a Christian 'chosen' for this grace if their lives (and choices on earth) have nothing to do with it? Is it random or what?