RE: Antikythera mechanism possibly older than previously thought?
November 30, 2014 at 1:32 pm
(This post was last modified: November 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I love the antikythera device - but lets keep a few things in mind.
It's -construction- doesn't actually surprise us. There was no advanced material science involved. We know that the civilizations around had the ability to make the components and also a penchant for making machines - Automata. That they'd been doing this for some time is made apparent by the fact that even their mythology is replete with machines. Many of us know that prometheus was tortured for his trouble -by a giant bird. Many of us aren't aware that the bird was artificial, described as a machine. Haphaestus, a sort of forge god - used automata to work his divine factory. Ctesibius is a famous actual or legendary inventor who lived or has stories told about from before the time of the AK Mech (even if we take the earlier date). He built toys, but also practical mechanisms (or has those things ascribed to him). Now the dates, the names, I wouldn;t say that the sources we have for that are very definitive - but what is definitive is that at a cultural level the greeks had a concept of machines that was very thoroughly woven into their cultural consciousness. These guys knew there was such a thing (even if it wasn;t always as amazing as the stories they told about it).
What it (the AK Mech) does is impressive, but only for the manner in which it is achieved. The functions that the device carries out (or is thought to carry out) are handled by analog computing mechanisms that lean on principles we already accept them to have understood (and some that they, in fact, originated). While it's a practical function - the cost of it's construction (as we understand it) would have been an impediment to practical -use-...or widespread distribution. Think of it like a GPS that costs more than getting lost would. Some people think of this as the brainchild of a genius inventor...but more comparisons can be made regarding a very skilled engineer. This is a novel idea made out of non-novel ideas. There is as little innovation in this as would be necessary to accomplish. Just looking at the design (or what we have of it) there are multitudes of improvements that could easily be made by anyone who actually understood analog computing principles...which anyone who built this from first principles would have to have known.
We're not accustomed to thinking of ancient peoples this way. As us, essentially, or effectively - but they were...and had been for some time. I don't think a genius built the antikythera mechanism, even though one (many, really) did think up all the principles upon which it's design relies. I think it was made to order from a known design by a competent fabricator, perhaps a tinkering engineer but not necessarily. A wealthy man or organization wanted this to demonstrate the application of well known principles. I don't even know if I would be comfortable calling it innovation (even though it is one of very few examples of the sort from the stories). I just don't know enough about the status of greek tech in the timeframe (and no one does) to think of it as some eureka moment. It;s also maybe just a little too convenient for my cultural bias to think that it -must have been- some wondermachine to them. Maybe they didn't implement it because they understood full well what it did and didn't feel like paying for it? It might have been a toy with which to educate wealthy children. - or, if you're a cynic like me, a toy with which to impress the silly parents of wealthy children - to send their son to learn from the great man, or to show the simpletons that the local potentate "knows shit they don't, son". If that wasn't (automata) their intended use, then they had a damned fine second life (for a machine) as such - as chuck noted.
(I'd also stress everything chuck said, lol)
It's -construction- doesn't actually surprise us. There was no advanced material science involved. We know that the civilizations around had the ability to make the components and also a penchant for making machines - Automata. That they'd been doing this for some time is made apparent by the fact that even their mythology is replete with machines. Many of us know that prometheus was tortured for his trouble -by a giant bird. Many of us aren't aware that the bird was artificial, described as a machine. Haphaestus, a sort of forge god - used automata to work his divine factory. Ctesibius is a famous actual or legendary inventor who lived or has stories told about from before the time of the AK Mech (even if we take the earlier date). He built toys, but also practical mechanisms (or has those things ascribed to him). Now the dates, the names, I wouldn;t say that the sources we have for that are very definitive - but what is definitive is that at a cultural level the greeks had a concept of machines that was very thoroughly woven into their cultural consciousness. These guys knew there was such a thing (even if it wasn;t always as amazing as the stories they told about it).
What it (the AK Mech) does is impressive, but only for the manner in which it is achieved. The functions that the device carries out (or is thought to carry out) are handled by analog computing mechanisms that lean on principles we already accept them to have understood (and some that they, in fact, originated). While it's a practical function - the cost of it's construction (as we understand it) would have been an impediment to practical -use-...or widespread distribution. Think of it like a GPS that costs more than getting lost would. Some people think of this as the brainchild of a genius inventor...but more comparisons can be made regarding a very skilled engineer. This is a novel idea made out of non-novel ideas. There is as little innovation in this as would be necessary to accomplish. Just looking at the design (or what we have of it) there are multitudes of improvements that could easily be made by anyone who actually understood analog computing principles...which anyone who built this from first principles would have to have known.
We're not accustomed to thinking of ancient peoples this way. As us, essentially, or effectively - but they were...and had been for some time. I don't think a genius built the antikythera mechanism, even though one (many, really) did think up all the principles upon which it's design relies. I think it was made to order from a known design by a competent fabricator, perhaps a tinkering engineer but not necessarily. A wealthy man or organization wanted this to demonstrate the application of well known principles. I don't even know if I would be comfortable calling it innovation (even though it is one of very few examples of the sort from the stories). I just don't know enough about the status of greek tech in the timeframe (and no one does) to think of it as some eureka moment. It;s also maybe just a little too convenient for my cultural bias to think that it -must have been- some wondermachine to them. Maybe they didn't implement it because they understood full well what it did and didn't feel like paying for it? It might have been a toy with which to educate wealthy children. - or, if you're a cynic like me, a toy with which to impress the silly parents of wealthy children - to send their son to learn from the great man, or to show the simpletons that the local potentate "knows shit they don't, son". If that wasn't (automata) their intended use, then they had a damned fine second life (for a machine) as such - as chuck noted.
(I'd also stress everything chuck said, lol)
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